Dreadful Terrorist Attack In Peshawar, Pakistan

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

The army fostered these people. The Pakistani army has always been sympathetic to terrorists. Now the terrorists are out of their
control.

Over simple. Reality is very complex there.

The Pakistani definitely have had a relationship with the Afghan Taliban, messing up Afghanistan being seen as in their interest. The 'pakistani Taliban' is, however, a different bunch, and further, the 'Taliban' umbrella there covers a bunch of only-loosely affiliated groups with varying composition, goals, tactics, frineds, enemies, etc, etc etc.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Over simple. Reality is very complex there.

The Pakistani definitely have had a relationship with the Afghan Taliban, messing up Afghanistan being seen as in their interest. The 'pakistani Taliban' is, however, a different bunch, and further, the 'Taliban' umbrella there covers a bunch of only-loosely affiliated groups with varying composition, goals, tactics, frineds, enemies, etc, etc etc.

I have a psychiatrist friend from Karachi. We don't talk politics much but I remember a while back after lunch I mentioned the fact that the government of this country, regardless of which party holds the Oval Office has the same attitude about the PKK (Kurkistan Worker's Party). It's the group that Obama's people have been looking to for active support against ISIS. But it's a long and convenient history for this country. Kurds have problems both in Iraq and in Turkey and there is active PKK in both countries. However...because the Turks are our long term allies, the Turkish PKK were categorized as a terrorist group by the US government, while the Iraq PKK, who were enemies of Saddam, were considered to be "freedom fighters" by the US government. It's the same goddamn PKK, of course and that schiz designation continues with Obama.

Anyway, one day I mentioned my disgust at this country's convenient attitude toward the PKK one day...Shaukat listened quietly. And when I was done, his only comment was, "Doesn't matter if they're in Turkey or in Iraq, they're Taliban."

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Anyway, one day I mentioned my disgust at this country's convenient attitude toward the PKK one day...Shaukat listened quietly. And when I was done, his only comment was, "Doesn't matter if they're in Turkey or in Iraq, they're Taliban."

But he's mistaken. The PKK are pretty much a secular and vaguely communist organization. They also have a strong feminist element in their ideology and even have women fighters in their ranks. (This scares the hell out of ISIS. The thought of being killed by a woman makes them wet their pants.)

Also, the PKK presence in Iraq has been sparse and contested until ISIS began knocking on the door of the Kurdish-controlled area of Iraq. There was open hostility, and occasional combat, between the PKK and the Peshmerga forces of the Kurdistan Regional Government.

Now the PKK and Peshmerga are conducting joint operations against ISIS. They are also an important force in the fight against ISIS in Syria, though the Turkish government has inexplicably taken steps to prevent PKK fighters from leaving Turkey to join the fight against ISIS.

John

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Boreas

But he's mistaken. The PKK are pretty much a secular and vaguely communist organization. They also have a strong feminist element in their ideology and even have women fighters in their ranks. (This scares the hell out of ISIS. The thought of being killed by a woman makes them wet their pants.)

Also, the PKK presence in Iraq has been sparse and contested until ISIS began knocking on the door of the Kurdish-controlled area of Iraq. There was open hostility, and occasional combat, between the PKK and the Peshmerga forces of the Kurdistan Regional Government.

Now the PKK and Peshmerga are conducting joint operations against ISIS. They are also an important force in the fight against ISIS in Syria, though the Turkish government has inexplicably taken steps to prevent PKK fighters from leaving Turkey to join the fight against ISIS.

John

That's one story. You can look at my post above as well, if you're interested. PKK forces along the Syrian border have been shredded. There are many in the Kurdish community, perhaps the majority, who detest the PKK. There are many in the Kurdish community who would prefer being under the control of ISIS than under the control of the PKK. Nobody who knows the actual deal there wants the PKK in control of anything. They will kill anybody who opposes them, including their own Kurdish brethren who's freedom they are allegedly fighting for. Just as the Taliban will.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

That's one story. You can look at my post above as well, if you're interested.

I've read all your posts in this thread and I don't see anything that disproves or even disputes anything I said about the PKK.

PKK forces along the Syrian border have been shredded.

They've certainly had a tough time. That's for sure but "shredded" may be a bit of an overstatement. A large part of the reason for their difficulties is the Turkish efforts to deny them resupply and reinforcements. Politics and ideology aside, the PKK are very brave and very fierce fighters and it's a mistake to squander them in the fight against ISIS.

There are many in the Kurdish community, perhaps the majority, who detest the PKK. There are many in the Kurdish community who would prefer being under the control of ISIS than under the control of the PKK. Nobody who knows the actual deal there wants the PKK in control of anything. They will kill anybody who opposes them, including their own Kurdish brethren who's freedom they are allegedly fighting for. Just as the Taliban will.

There is definitely a power struggle within the Kurdish diaspora with different groups vying for power. Each faction will have stories to tell about the evils of their opponents but, again, your statement above doesn't refute anything I've said about the PKK. They are not the "Taliban". They are secular and they are about a Kurdish homeland, not a global caliphate.

John

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Boreas

There is definitely a power struggle within the Kurdish diaspora with different groups vying for power. Each faction will have stories to tell about the evils of their opponents but, again, your statement above doesn't refute anything I've said about the PKK. They are not the "Taliban". They are secular and they are about a Kurdish homeland, not a global caliphate.

John

You're picking a nit with me John. My friend's point was that when it comes to the two groups and their interactions with the government's they might oppose or when it comes to their treatment of anyone who opposes them, including their fellow Kurds for whom they allegedly desire a homeland (or in the case of the Taliban their fellow Pashtuns), there's no difference between the PKK and the Taliban. To him the notion of the secularism of the PKK versus the religious fanaticism of the Taliban means nothing...when to the victims, the philosophy makes not one bit of difference.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

You're picking a nit with me John. My friend's point was that when it comes to the two groups and their interactions with the government's they might oppose or when it comes to their treatment of anyone who opposes them, including their fellow Kurds for whom they allegedly desire a homeland (or in the case of the Taliban their fellow Pashtuns), there's no difference between the PKK and the Taliban. To him the notion of the secularism of the PKK versus the religious fanaticism of the Taliban means nothing...when to the victims, the philosophy makes not one bit of difference.

It's pretty obvious that both you and your friend are pretty clueless on issues of geopolitics. I knew that about you already, but now I have the same impression of your friend.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

You're picking a nit with me John. My friend's point was that when it comes to the two groups and their interactions with the government's they might oppose or when it comes to their treatment of anyone who opposes them, including their fellow Kurds for whom they allegedly desire a homeland (or in the case of the Taliban their fellow Pashtuns), there's no difference between the PKK and the Taliban. To him the notion of the secularism of the PKK versus the religious fanaticism of the Taliban means nothing...when to the victims, the philosophy makes not one bit of difference.

No difference? No difference? Jesus wept! When was the last time the PKK murdered 135 school children? How often have they shot a teenage girl in the head because she spoke out for the education of girls?

John

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Over simple. Reality is very complex there.

The Pakistani definitely have had a relationship with the Afghan Taliban, messing up Afghanistan being seen as in their interest. The 'pakistani Taliban' is, however, a different bunch, and further, the 'Taliban' umbrella there covers a bunch of only-loosely affiliated groups with varying composition, goals, tactics, frineds, enemies, etc, etc etc.

In many areas the Pakistani/Afghanistan border is seamless.