I think they're lying. And I think they know it.

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

No, I don't beleive they were ALL fervent, devout, bible thumping Christians any more than I believe any one given group of people today are totally like-minded. The mere premise of this is an absolute absurdity.

Yes, Pete, "organized religion of ANY stripe". ANY stripe, including CHRISTIANITY. Sure, one can believe in the teachings of Christ and never step foot in a church. I understand that.

But, are you really trying to get me to believe that the Church, any church, hasn't, isn't or wouldn't try to get it's claws into the government for the purpose of garnering undue influence over public policy? Please. They whine about it constantly. "Get God back into government.", "Christian Nation", "Put Prayer back into Public Schools", blah, blah, blah, blah, ad nauseum.

Dave

I never said they were Bible thumpers, many of them were taciturn in the extreme, part of the reason it's so easy to draw out this debate today.

It does include Christianity. Heck the thought (then) of it being any other would have been laughable to them, except for their taciturnity

Freedom OF religion was to keep the various denominations in check.

I'm not and have not encouraged religious takeover of government. Free expression however (at least as they saw it) has been trampled.

Originally Posted by Boreas

Some, yes. Some, no. The Treaty of Tripoli specifically addresses the question of whether we are or are not a Christian nation. It states in so many words that we are not.

Right! Those Luddites like Tommy Jefferson and Benjie Franklin woulda been on those "Evolutionists" like white on rice!

I think the quotes Fast Eddie posted could be considered "source material". If by source material, you mean the Constitution, there isn't even a mention of God in it. The Declaration of Independence does mention God but not in a way that could be construed as an acknowledgment of his authority. Also, the Declaration of Independence wasn't written by the US Government. It was a manifesto written by rebels.



We still have them. They're cultural but not governmental.



So? None were women, by the way. Does that make us a male nation?



This one's a little tougher for me. That Chaplin bit has always bothered me. I think it walks right up to the edge of being an unconstitutional commingling of religion and government. Printing the bible doesn't really mean much, though.

John

The treaty of Tripoli, that groundbreaking document? It shows we have always had a realpolitik view of foriegn relations.

2 of many, many, many. And Ben advocated Bible teaching in school.

Picked and choosy source material! And again examine what they are actually saying.

Back then it certainly governmental, a call from the federal government. Washington called for the 1st Thanksgiving in our new country, to Thank God for listening!

Yes, our form of government was designed exclusively by males.

Printing the Bible doesn't mean much?! What are we talking about here?

And you guys bringing up Thomas Paine should learn what happened to him.

Pete