Faith and Reason

[donquixote99]

I'm creating this thread for any continuation of a general discussion of faith and Christianity that was forming an unrelated tangent in a political topic. What precedes this point can be found in 'The Era of Trump' topic, sort of starting with #167, though there's some in previous posts.

Originally Posted by BigElCat

Our disputation is recreational for me, as well.

I clearly stated that Calvinism is a non-issue for my belief system. The idea that God needs forgiveness, is the Cause Belli of a war fought in Heaven.

It doesn't bother me that you treat it lightly. This is how the devil makes 'himself' disappear. If you are merely human, as I am, then you're doing an excellent job advocating for the devil.

I appreciate your complementing my advocacy, though I deny it is for an immortal spiritual adversary I don't believe in. We are always going to circle back to belief. And belief is a reaction, the acceptance is unconscious, not directly volitional. One way to describe it is as "the gift from God." (KJV)

This is of itself sufficient reason to feel that conditioning eternal outcomes on belief isn't what one would think of as just.

[BigElCat]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

And belief is a reaction, the acceptance is unconscious, not directly volitional. One way to describe it is as "the gift from God." (KJV)

This is of itself sufficient reason to feel that conditioning eternal outcomes on belief isn't what one would think of as just.

My belief is a reaction, my acceptance was volitional, not unconscious.

God's gift is (was) the Holy Spirit. My eternal outcome does not rise from my belief, I did not created God just by thinking He exists.

It may seem unjust to you, but you are not pushing the envelope of human thought, you're hitting the wall where your ego ends.

[BigElCat]

It's IN you, Mike, if you're a natural born human.

Smaller than a mustard seed. Smaller than an electron microscope can capture.

My proof is what you're seeing in the world, without believing.

And no the fucking Romans didn't write the bible to manipulate people (as Finnbow suggested).

[donquixote99]

By that logic, if it's not in me, I'm not a natural born human. And since it's not physical, and undetectable, I'd better act like it's in me. Otherwise I could be a bind like the Monty Python witch test presented, one of these days....

This made me think of "Unhumans," a far-right propaganda book. Here's a little excerpt from one disapproving reaction:

The book roots its thesis in the language of genocide. It strips its targets of their humanity, framing them as evil monsters with an unquenchable thirst for murder and mayhem. The supposed motivation for this alleged villainy is never clearly stated. Apparently, it stems from a basic desire to create widespread unhappiness. The possibility of demonic possession is also raised.[emphasis added]

The book says Democrats are communists, and communists are unhumans. Bannon wrote the foreword for this thing; Vance contributed a cover blurb. Sounds like the paranoids are after us.

(So, having made a religion thread, back we go to politics. May be hard to keep them apart going forward....)


Note: I edited this message. Initially it said Unhumans was "planned for release before the election, then delayed at the last minute when it attracted too much negative attention." That's not true, I was thinking of another book, "Dawn's Early Light: Taking Back Washington to Save America." Written by Roberts of the Heritage Foundation; Vance did the foreward for this one.

[init4fun]

Originally Posted by BigElCat

And no the fucking Romans didn't write the bible to manipulate people (as Finnbow suggested).

In my best Arnold Horshack voice;

Oh!, , Oh!, , Mr. Cotter, I know the answer!

..... To "manipulate" (control) people's . . . . MONEY!!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._organizations

Your welcome......

[Oasis]

I was brought up RC, at an early age I rejected the concept of a higher being.

Later I also rejected Astrology, Reaki, Clairvoyance, Extraterrestrial visitations, Ghosts ect, they were also dumped due to the same reasoned thinking.

For myself important things require the same level of reasoning, evidence is key, if something lacks evidence to support it I'm not interested in it.

[Oerets]

The question should be Faith or Reason?

One requires no proof to believe, the other searches for it in order to.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by BigElCat

And no the fucking Romans didn't write the bible to manipulate people (as Finnbow suggested).

I did not say nor suggest that the Romans wrote the Bible. The Bible has many authors, many of whom are unknown. The ancient Israelites are responsible for the Old Testament and popes and theologians appointed by the Roman emperor chose the various books (by different authors) that comprise the New Testament. This entire process of writing and then selecting the works that comprise the Bible took ~5 centuries.

And Christianity ultimately became a world religion by virtue of various mandates/edicts issued by several Roman emperors.

[GChief]

^^^ Eggzackly, they edited the collection of fairy tales.

On a side note, we are putting up all of our Krampus decorations today. Only xmas decorations we own.

[Oerets]

I always figured, if you want to start an argument.
A sure way is between two of different Cristian faiths on who's the right one.

Or any two different religions for that matter.