The Germans dont want to supply cluster bombs - Page 3

Ike Bana · #21 07-09-2023, 07:40 AM

Biden has approved the shipment of cluster munitions to Ukraine. Zelenskyy has made a commitment to locate and remove or disable any live ordinance after the Russians end this criminal action.

Good.

Dondilion · #22 07-09-2023, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oerets

The truth of the matter is Ukraine is putting up a very good fight against Russia. This war is one of attrition and so Russia has the numbers to last longer. The only way Ukraine can win is if and when Russia looses it's will to fight. If Putin were to no longer be in charge is the only way it appears this will happen.

It can be argued that hurting Russia even more will hasten the removal of Putin. The problem with me is just where is the line we don't cross in helping the Ukraine people. Cluster Bombs OK today, tomorrow what when they fail to stop the Russians?

Afraid that as long as other countries support Russia. That little will be accomplished other then prolonging the war. The Biden administration is under pressure to end the war before next year. Trying to be in the fight and not get dirty. Supplying materials and sanctions. Not enough of either or fast enough. I would think making Ukraine a NATO member with a unified vote would be a better weapon. Never happen because of the fragile nature of the alliance.

Regardless of who is in charge, no Russian is going to give up Crimea. The calculus was that Russia would break under the immense sanctions, but the Global South helped prevented that from happening. On the other hand, what we are observing is the war's destabilizing effect on Europe...Britain, France, Holland, Spain, Portugal, Germany. Then there are Poland and Hungary as wayward children. Recently the Bulgarians told Zelensky to piss off and sue for Peace. BlackRock and JP Morgan are also pressing. They are impatient.
Right now there are back-channel talks with the Russians. The neo-cons are putting up stiff resistance but the business community wants a return to normalcy. Plus certain elements of the US military and legacy diplomats are concerned with escalation over a country that they deem not vital to the strategic interest of the US.
In the meantime, the Russians are amassing a huge army and are showing a willingness to adapt. Plus their economy is on a growing war footing.

The Ukrainians are exhausted and in a very bad spot. The US acceding to the cluster bomb request indicates as much.

finnbow · #23 07-09-2023, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Regardless of who is in charge, no Russian is going to give up Crimea.

Why not? Khrushchev did. Seriously though, nobody is expecting Russia to give back Crimea voluntarily. Indeed, that's part of the reason Ukraine is still fighting.

Quote:

In the meantime, the Russians are amassing a huge army and are showing a willingness to adapt. Plus their economy is on a growing war footing.

The Ukrainians are exhausted and in a very bad spot. The US acceding to the cluster bomb request indicates as much.

Not exactly. "Russia has lost nearly half the combat effectiveness of its army," Radakin said, according to the Financial Times. "Last year, it fired 10 million artillery shells, but at best, can produce 1 million shells a year. It has lost 2,500 tanks and, at best, can produce 200 tanks a year."

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukra...fensive-2023-7

In the meantime, Russia has lost nearly 250K men and have had to resort to using convicts as cannon fodder. Also, Ukraine Has More Tanks Than Russia For First Time Ever.

Oerets · #24 07-09-2023, 04:00 PM

I still think if one honestly look to the future.

Seeing the "Mutiny" by Yevgeny Prigozhin and his comments about the war. It should be apparent there is a undercurrent of sentiment for his views. If and when Putin is no more who is to say what will happen. Could be like the fall of the USSR. A rebirth of Russia and a more progressive government will assume power. There are many families there now suffering in silence.

Rajoo · #25 07-09-2023, 04:21 PM

The entire world knows by now that the Russian military might was overrated. Their invasion of Ukraine has not been a two day war like the US in Iraq, its on its second year and Ukraine is getting better and better arms from NATO. With all the economic sanctions levied on Russia, their economy cannot just flourish selling oil to China and India, not that their economy was ever world class.

Yevgeny Prigozhin has weakened Putin's standing and we do not know what his next move will be. It seems he is still in Russia and that should worry Putin unless the march to Moscow was a sham. Currently the Russian forces are well entrenched but they are not in a position to go on the offensive either because that will expose them and Ukrainians will wipe them out including their equipment. How long can they hide lobbing missiles?

For now, Ukraine is in a good position as long as they are willing to fight and 70% of their people want the Russians out of Ukraine. Wonder how many Russians want Russia to annex Ukraine at the current cost in lives.

Hope Israel can find a good reason to make a few bombing runs over Iran to stop them from supplying missiles to Russia.

Dondilion · #26 07-09-2023, 04:32 PM

Wow, quoting Business Insider and the UK military!

Dondilion · #27 07-09-2023, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajoo

The entire world knows by now that the Russian military might was overrated. Their invasion of Ukraine has not been a two day war like the US in Iraq, its on its second year and Ukraine is getting better and better arms from NATO. With all the economic sanctions levied on Russia, their economy cannot just flourish selling oil to China and India, not that their economy was ever world class.

Yevgeny Prigozhin has weakened Putin's standing and we do not know what his next move will be. It seems he is still in Russia and that should worry Putin unless the march to Moscow was a sham. Currently the Russian forces are well entrenched but they are not in a position to go on the offensive either because that will expose them and Ukrainians will wipe them out including their equipment. How long can they hide lobbing missiles?

For now, Ukraine is in a good position as long as they are willing to fight and 70% of their people want the Russians out of Ukraine. Wonder how many Russians want Russia to annex Ukraine at the current cost in lives.

Hope Israel can find a good reason to make a few bombing runs over Iran to stop them from supplying missiles to Russia.

US went into Iraq with a massive force and immediately took out Iraq's infrastructure and strategic centers.