Crash the train to stop it

[donquixote99]

It strikes me that this Republican determination to force the US into default is the American version of Brexit. In each case, we have a right wing faction willing to do any amount of damage to the economy to hold on to power, with some corrupt oligarchs thinking they will profit.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

It strikes me that this Republican determination to force the US into default is the American version of Brexit. In each case, we have a right wing faction willing to do any amount of damage to the economy to hold on to power, with some corrupt oligarchs thinking they will profit.

The economy is already damaged!!

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

The economy is already damaged!!

To the degree that the economy is "damaged," it is so due to Republican policy (deregulation securities/banking industry, supply side economics and a deliberate imbalance between spending and revenue due to tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations).

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Here's more Dem "scare 'em about spending cuts" messaging:

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...-cut-spending/

Using past proposals, Biden said the GOP could try to slash Medicaid and Obamacare benefits, as well as Social Security and Medicare.

“What are they going to cut? That’s the big question,” Biden said Tuesday. “For millions of Americans, health care hangs in the balance.”

And the GOP frontrunner is saying the exact same thing. He, like I (and unlike you), are smart enough to realize that the GOP base does not want cuts in Social Security and Medicare. To wit:

Trump’s main line of attack comes straight out of the Democratic playbook: He says DeSantis would cut Medicare and Social Security and would raise the eligibility ages for these programs.

Essentially, Trump is running a Democratic campaign in a Republican primary. It’s the kind of attack that often works in a general election, because most voters oppose cuts to entitlement programs. But will it work in a Republican primary?

Yes, it will. It may not decide the nomination, but it will certainly help Trump. The reason is that Republican voters are willing to cut lots of programs, but not Medicare or Social Security. And they’re strongly inclined to vote on this issue, even in a primary...

Mathematically, this isn’t a close call. In polls, more than three-quarters of Republicans consistently oppose any talk of “reducing benefits” or “cutting” Medicare or Social Security. Only 6 percent of Republicans say their generation should get less money from Medicare and Social Security than previous generations did; 49 percent say they should get more.

https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/donald...ratic-campaign

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

And the GOP frontrunner is saying the exact same thing. He, like I (and unlike you), are smart enough to realize that the GOP base does not want cuts in Social Security and Medicare. To wit:

[I]Trump’s main line of attack comes straight out of the Democratic playbook: He says DeSantis would cut Medicare and Social Security and would raise the eligibility ages foor these programs.

Essentially, Trump is running a Democratic campaign in a Republican primary. It’s the kind of attack that often works in a general election, because most voters oppose cuts to entitlement programs. But will it work in a Republican primary?

I don't know what you're babbling about here. No one wants to "cut" these programs. I'm not aware of anyone who is campaigning or talking about it. Maybe you need to adjust your tin foil hat because it's pulling in voices from the Birch Society from 50 years ago.

Reform or reduce the rate of growth? Yes. All Washington is going to do with Soc Sec is exactly what they've done in the past, which is kick the can down the road: pushing out the retirement age for future claimants.

Now, back on topic. McCarthy has offered more specifics about their budget goals, and they're pretty modest and dare I say reasonable:
1) Pass a budget resolution that will fund the gov't until March.
2) Freeze spending at 2020 levels, with a 1% increase to the budget each year.

The devil is often in the details. I've heard that a couple of Biden's stated priorities would be subject to cuts or defunding but those could be tossed out for bargaining purposes.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Yeah, what a bunch of a$$holes. They were elected with a pretty clear message from their constituents to attack spending, and there they are attempting to deliver on it.

Originally Posted by whell

I don't know what you're babbling about here. No one wants to "cut" these programs. I'm not aware of anyone who is campaigning or talking about it.

The initial post that started our disagreement was you saying that GOP House members were elected by their constituents to cut spending and now you say that nobody wants to cut such spending. Which is it?

And FYI, Rick Scott (R-FL), National Republican Senatorial Committee Chair, has been outspoken in his desire to cut both Social Security and Medicare. Also, the current runner-up for the GOP nomination, Ron DeSantis, voted for cuts to these programs when he was in Congress.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

The initial post that started our disagreement was you saying that GOP House members were elected by their constituents to cut spending and now you say that nobody wants to cut such spending. Which is it?

And FYI, Rick Scott (R-FL), National Republican Senatorial Committee Chair, has been outspoken in his desire to cut both Social Security and Medicare. Also, the current runner-up for the GOP nomination, Ron DeSantis, voted for cuts to these programs when he was in Congress.

You're confused... as usual. Yes, I posted about the desire to get spending under control. YOU responded by bringing up Soc Sec and Medicare.

News flash - spending can be brought under control by injecting a bit of fiscal discipline - something that currently is absent on both sides of the aisle. All the Dems want to do is blame and resort to scare tactics when the subject of spending reductions come up.

Tell you what Finn - if you're serious about this topic, then get active. You voted for Biden, whose spending appetite knows no bounds. Tell me all about the Dem candidates that you support who have a plan to reduce spending and/or inject fiscal discipline into the Federal gov't. We don't have a revenue problem - the Fed gov't sets records almost every quarter these days for tax revenue. Show me someone who has a workable plan on the Dem side and who has made substantive proposals to do so. Hell, I might even support them of they're serious about it.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

And FYI, Rick Scott (R-FL), National Republican Senatorial Committee Chair, has been outspoken in his desire to cut both Social Security and Medicare. Also, the current runner-up for the GOP nomination, Ron DeSantis, voted for cuts to these programs when he was in Congress.

No, DeSantis did vote for "cuts" to these programs:

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/04/du...-and-medicare/

As a member of Congress, DeSantis voted for three nonbinding budget proposals from the conservative Republican Study Committee in 2013, 2014 and 2015. The plans, which sought to balance the budget in four to six years instead of the 10 years proposed by Ryan, recommended transitioning Medicare to a premium support system for new beneficiaries and gradually raising the Medicare eligibility age to 67. On Social Security, it proposed similarly increasing the full retirement age to 70 and indexing it for life expectancy. And it sought to move to an alternative cost-of-living formula for Social Security called the “chained CPI,” which was expected to grow at a slower rate than the traditional Consumer Price Index (former President Barack Obama once proposed to do that as well).

So, he supported raising the retirement age, which is something that is likely going to happen in the next year or two. He also supported reducing the rate of growth. FYI - for the math-challenged, reducing the rate of growth is not a "cut".

As far as Rick Scott: nope. That's something that your Dem pals...um...to be kind....exaggerated. If you want to believe that, well, you be you, Finn.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

The economy is already damaged!!

You call this damaged? Just wait. We'll revisit this if the default is made to happen. As of today:

4/20/23

Dow: 33,786.62
US 10-yr yield: 3.55
US Real GDP: 20.18T
Unemployment Rate: 3.5%
Crude Oil Price: 77.25

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

You're confused... as usual. Yes, I posted about the desire to get spending under control. YOU responded by bringing up Soc Sec and Medicare.

News flash - spending can be brought under control by injecting a bit of fiscal discipline - something that currently is absent on both sides of the aisle. All the Dems want to do is blame and resort to scare tactics when the subject of spending reductions come up.

Tell you what Finn - if you're serious about this topic, then get active. You voted for Biden, whose spending appetite knows no bounds. Tell me all about the Dem candidates that you support who have a plan to reduce spending and/or inject fiscal discipline into the Federal gov't. We don't have a revenue problem - the Fed gov't sets records almost every quarter these days for tax revenue. Show me someone who has a workable plan on the Dem side and who has made substantive proposals to do so. Hell, I might even support them of they're serious about it.

So, if you now believe that entitlement programs should not be cut and defense spending remains untouchable, you're indirectly admitting that we have a revenue problem and not a spending problem. Accordingly, the first necessary step toward balancing the budget is to rescind Trump's tax cuts. You're welcome.