How about a thread about PC

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Being "PC" is another way of saying "I'm not saying things that will intentionally offend other people." Another way of saying that is "not being a dick".

A civil expression of common courtesy and respect, yes.

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[merrylander]

Does it really require anything more than common courtesy? Words can hurt and can be chosen with just that purpose in mind. They can also please or at least be neutral and neither flatter nor offend. Much of what is called PC may simply be a case of regarding your audience as individuals or as one individual whatever the case may be.

It was not a case of being politically correct but the exercise of courting my wife across 500 miles was an interesting, but nearly daunting task. I had to express what was truly in my heart but to do so I had to find words that to a technical writer were most certainly unfamiliar. And to write them to a woman that I really did not know all that well, up to that point we had only shaken hands. Well there were two phone calls that got quite intense.

So in discussing a sensitive subject with perfect strangers choosing your words becomes an interesting exercise. What is your intent? Are you presenting an idea or concept for discussion? Or has the discussion already progressed to the stage that you really want to shock and upset. BTDT. This may well be the crux as we presumably are discussing politics hence PC. People usually have fairly definite ideas and positions and so if we hope to persuade them to examine their ideas we must tread softly. Reasonable people will examine proposals and re-examine their own ideas honestly. Hard and fast believers will simply respond with canned phrases. Now can we call such a response PC? I submit that it is not because the responder has simply dismissed the idea or concept out of hand.

[HarmanKardon]

Originally Posted by icenine

Ach du Liebes Bichen!

(I think that is German for Good Grief!)



Without proposing questions we cannot find out what PC actually IS,

Almost correct: it is "Ach du liebes bisschen".

[VanishingPoi]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

But still, no one has answered the question whether Frank Zappa ever practiced political correctness.

Regards,

D-Ray

Interesting question. Zappa was a relatively sensitive person so maybe he did on occasion. There are some things that just require a certain amount of sensitivity.

Zappa had a Syrian background. So his family being Arab Catholics must have had some influence. He wrote a lot about religion. He was a full blown Atheist.

This is what he had to say about the Reagan administration:

"The biggest threat to America today is not communism, it’s moving America toward a fascist theocracy. And everything that’s happened during the Reagan administration is steering us right down that pipe".

Our country is becoming evermore fascist on a daily basis and I for one am getting very scared. (me)

[mpholland]

Fuck political correctness. I don't go out of my way to intentionally offend most people, but that is not political correctness, that is politeness. I don't refer to short people as vertically challenged, and I still call garbage men garbage men, not sanitation engineers. Last I looked you didn't need a bachelors degree to pick up garbage. I know black people who prefer black, and black people who prefer African/American. There are Mexicans who don't like to be called Hispanic, but are perfectly fine with being called Latinos. I am not racist and there are names I would never call them, but I will not go out of my way and worry about whether I pick the right word not to offend. No matter what you say, there is always the possibility that someone will be offended by it and life is too short for me to worry about it.

As for Zappa, I don't think he was ever intentionally politically correct. Usually he went out of his way to be politically incorrect, but I feel he actually despised "political correctness" as much as I do and for many of the same reasons.

[whell]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Political correctness is sort of weaponized manners. Manners are the start of it--don't be offensive to others. But that value is then mobilized as a weapon of political fight.

I agree with this. I think people do it because they believe it works for them to bring about a particular outcome, and generally speaking they're right. It works, because folks knuckle under to it, cave in to it, because most folks want to be "liked", or in more public arenas don't want any negative publicity.

I disagree that such "weaponization" should be allowed control public discourse. When someone feigns offense because they are looking to create discomfort to exercise control over discourse, its probably because they're argument or idea would otherwise fail on its own merits. Whether or not we agree with the agenda of the individual using such poor debate tactics, IMHO we need to redirect the individual or group using such tactics to a more productive form of discourse.

[donquixote99]

I applaud your new devotion to productive forms of discourse.

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Does it really require anything more than common courtesy? Words can hurt and can be chosen with just that purpose in mind. They can also please or at least be neutral and neither flatter nor offend. Much of what is called PC may simply be a case of regarding your audience as individuals or as one individual whatever the case may be.

It was not a case of being politically correct but the exercise of courting my wife across 500 miles was an interesting, but nearly daunting task. I had to express what was truly in my heart but to do so I had to find words that to a technical writer were most certainly unfamiliar. And to write them to a woman that I really did not know all that well, up to that point we had only shaken hands. Well there were two phone calls that got quite intense.

So in discussing a sensitive subject with perfect strangers choosing your words becomes an interesting exercise. What is your intent? Are you presenting an idea or concept for discussion? Or has the discussion already progressed to the stage that you really want to shock and upset. BTDT. This may well be the crux as we presumably are discussing politics hence PC. People usually have fairly definite ideas and positions and so if we hope to persuade them to examine their ideas we must tread softly. Reasonable people will examine proposals and re-examine their own ideas honestly. Hard and fast believers will simply respond with canned phrases. Now can we call such a response PC? I submit that it is not because the responder has simply dismissed the idea or concept out of hand.

Well said!

[d-ray657]

Thanks for the input here folks. This thread is an example of what Political Chat can be. A lot of differing ideas have been expressed here trying to get a handle on what has been at least a controversial sociological concept for several years. The perspectives I have seen here have been helpful in my understanding.

I would refer back to the link Vanishingpoint provided about nonviolent expression. Political correctness at its best would be communicating with others not as defined by their group but by their humanity.

Regards,

D-Ray

[icenine]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

'Political Correctness' is an abstract term...hard to point at something and say 'that's it.' The most usual usage, I think, is sort of 'language use that avoids showing a 'lack of sympathy,' or even animosity, to the sensitivities of persons discriminated-against.' Sometime, 'persons discriminated against' morphs into 'persons making radical social criticisms and claiming sensitivity based on their particular POV.'

A wider usage encompasses other enforcement of some political orthodoxy, beyond choices in usage of language.

Most true.