The War Against Democracy

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by MikeG22

The government doesn't need to be replaced or eliminated it just needs a few good sprays of deoxit.

How about starting with the elected class not all being wealthy individuals. The only way to be elected anymore is huge amounts of money and almost always money brings corruption and special interests.

True.

Except when we do put wealthy businessmen up to run for office some people react almost like it's the Second Coming. If you nominate someone who speaks of favoring the poor and working Americans, they call him a so(c)ialist.

There is more at work here than just direct economic influence. Some folks have been convinced that it's the wealthy businessmen who have all of the answers, which of course, involves some very anti-working class ideology. And that's the result of a very successful and long sustained propaganda campaign, IMO.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

Oh BS! You continue to want to be petulant about this, and perpetuate idiotic and dis-proven narratives.

Conservatives have been increasingly concerned about the scope and reach of government for years.

Spare me the "this is all about Obama" crap. You can't be that blind.

Disproven to who? You? Careful what you claim to be "disproven". Some hardheads still insist the presidents citizenship hasn't been proven.

What about the "scope and reach" of business and corporate influence within the government?

Spare me this, "It has nothing to do with Obama" crap. You can't be that blind.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

citizens United and Mccutcheon rulings have pretty much sabotaged the election process permanently. Term limits are still an option.

Yep.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Amazing how we can have a relatively calm and adult discussion without the interjection of certain influences, isn't it?

Dave

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Amazing how we can have a relatively calm and adult discussion without the interjection of certain influences, isn't it?

Dave

Oh, bite me!



.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

GOP fetishism over Reagan is silly, weird and counterproductive. He's dead and what you're left with is a bunch of silly, unappealing idiots trying to pass themselves as conservatives (Cruz, Paul, Palin, Cain, Santorum .....). The truth is that only about 15-20% of Americans buy into this core conservative principles malarkey (the Teabaggers). Most others are smart enough to realize that governance is done through compromise between those of differing viewpoints/interests. This is lost completely on today's conservative movement.

So please enlighten me: what are the core conservative principles that most folks don't buy into? And lets skip the too-cute responses like "rascim": that's political BS. What are the core economic and social core conservative principles that Americans reject?

And the lack of compromise is indeed a product of today's Washington dysfunction. Unlike you, however, I see it as a product of intransigence on both sides, as both sides become more polarized. As Bob Woodward points out, and most folks on the left ignore:

In Obama’s first meeting with Democratic and Republican House and Senate leaders, just two weeks after his inauguration, he told the group that he wanted to hear everyone’s ideas and come to a bipartisan solution—words he had run his presidential platform on. He told those assembled, “If it works, we don’t care whose idea it is.” But the next day his tune changed when Rep. Eric Cantor, then House minority whip, passed out a draft of a potential economic recovery plan that essentially met only the Republican demands. After reading the one-page spread, the president responded: “I can go it alone but I want to come together. Look at the polls. The polls are pretty good for me right now.” He then told Cantor, “Elections have consequences and Eric, I won.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-politics.html

In fact, as Woodward points out, there are a number of reasons for the disconnects in Washington that are traceable to the current leadership. In fact, has been noted that the current administration is the most "insular" of any in recent memory, with Obama surrounding himself with a small group of advisers and information and decision making held in close quarters. There's no question that there's a divide inside the beltway, but to suggest as many on this forum so often do that lack of compromise is strictly on the right side of the aisle is just BS.

[whell]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Disproven to who? You? Careful what you claim to be "disproven". Some hardheads still insist the presidents citizenship hasn't been proven.

What about the "scope and reach" of business and corporate influence within the government?

Spare me this, "It has nothing to do with Obama" crap. You can't be that blind.

Dave

Nor am I trying to be that extreme. There's nothing new about influence pedaling and politicians becoming millionaires. Its become its own industry. Some of the most wealthy counties in the country are the ones that surround Washington DC.

Of course the issue is "scope and reach" of business and corporate influence within the government. But I'm questioning the logic of turning to the foxes that occupy the hen house to fix the problem of the foxes in the hen house.

[BlueStreak]

"....essentially only met Republican plans."

Hence the presidents response-in-kind.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

But I'm questioning the logic of turning to the foxes that occupy the hen house to fix the problem of the foxes in the hen house.

An issue I often ponder when managers assert that employees can always come to them when they have a problem..........

Unless management caused it of course.

Doesn't work. Glad to see you agree.

Dave

[whell]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

"....essentially only met Republican plans."

Hence the presidents response-in-kind.

Dave

Yes. In a negotiation, both sides present their positions, and then negotiations proceed from there. According to Woodward, there was no offer from the Prez to negotiate. Rather, the response was: "Look at the polls. The polls are pretty good for me right now.” He then told Cantor, “Elections have consequences and Eric, I won."