Getting Rid of Holder

[bobabode]

"At the outset. the allegation desc ribed in your January 27 letter- that ATF "sanctioned or otherwise knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to a straw purchaser who then transported them into Mexico-is false."

This is what Issa is hanging his hat on? WTF doesn't Issa have even a rudimentary grasp of the english language?

I asked earlier if anyone had read the wiki article? I guess not.

From all appearances even AG Welch didn't lie factually.

This is a dirty dog fishing expedition in an election year designed to appeal to the get tough law and order crowd. Even though that's exactly the crew who this stupid scheme was hatched up for by the previous adminisration.

The bullshit decision, by some idjits much lower in the food chain than the Justice Dept, to take a wait and see position in hopes of catching the bigger fish allowed some of these weapons to get over the border. They allowed the straw purchasers to stockpile and missed the actual transportation into Mexico.

Fer Chrissakes, do some reading my friends. Check the wiki link a few posts back. This shitstorm in a thimble is exactly that, a fuck up by Arizona ATF&E cowboys, no more no less. To try to pin it on Holder or the President is a stinkin' pile of shit with even less reality than the Monica scandal visited on Clinton.

This is not a Watergate no matter what the slobbering shitheads on the right think. I hope Holder triples staffing prosecuting the Voting Rights Act in response. That would be the appropriate response to this malfeasance being engendered by Issa and his gang of 17.

I understand the "where there's smoke- somebody must be getting high" position but this ain't Nixon's overwhelmingly felonious administration here.

If you don't like wiki's then there isn't a goddamn thing I can cite too convince you but then teabaggers don't entertain facts in their mindless crusade to dumb everyone down to their level. Parsing soundbite sluts that they are.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by finnbow

It really doesn't matter that much IMHO. It opened the door to the fact that 2,000 weapons walked. The media and the GOP have to put a face on the incident to make it compelling.

Pat I disagree in that in a court of law this evidence wouldn't be able to stand as prima facie evidence of which weapon was used to kill.

Since when does the court of public opinion count in this type of case? Everytime I guess, if a congreaseman doesn't believe in facts having any bearing on allegations. I for one don't believe or find compelling this bullshit and I'm sure you don't either, my brother, but who the friggen hell listens to the likes of us?

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by bobabode

"At the outset. the allegation desc ribed in your January 27 letter- that ATF "sanctioned or otherwise knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to a straw purchaser who then transported them into Mexico-is false."

This is what Issa is hanging his hat on? WTF doesn't Issa have even a rudimentary grasp of the english language?

I asked earlier if anyone had read the wiki article? I guess not.

From all appearances even AG Welch didn't lie factually.

This is a dirty dog fishing expedition in an election year designed to appeal to the get tough law and order crowd. Even though that's exactly the crew who this stupid scheme was hatched up for by the previous adminisration.

The bullshit decision, by some idjits much lower in the food chain than the Justice Dept, to take a wait and see position in hopes of catching the bigger fish allowed some of these weapons to get over the border. They allowed the straw purchasers to stockpile and missed the actual transportation into Mexico.

Holder did recant his assertions of this letter in a later letter. Therein lies the rub. If the rest of what you say is true, it could completely vindicate Holder and shame Issa. Bring it on.

For the record, I like Eric Holder. He has been a fixture around here for several decades and always seemed like an upstanding guy. If Issa is trying to f*ck him over, I'd say fight back with facts and demolish the prick. Cheerleading by partisans of both sides does little to resolve this.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by bobabode

"At the outset. the allegation desc ribed in your January 27 letter- that ATF "sanctioned or otherwise knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to a straw purchaser who then transported them into Mexico-is false."

This is what Issa is hanging his hat on? WTF doesn't Issa have even a rudimentary grasp of the english language?

I asked earlier if anyone had read the wiki article? I guess not.

From all appearances even AG Welch didn't lie factually.

This is a dirty dog fishing expedition in an election year designed to appeal to the get tough law and order crowd. Even though that's exactly the crew who this stupid scheme was hatched up for by the previous adminisration.

The bullshit decision, by some idjits much lower in the food chain than the Justice Dept, to take a wait and see position in hopes of catching the bigger fish allowed some of these weapons to get over the border. They allowed the straw purchasers to stockpile and missed the actual transportation into Mexico.

Fer Chrissakes, do some reading my friends. Check the wiki link a few posts back. This shitstorm in a thimble is exactly that, a fuck up by Arizona ATF&E cowboys, no more no less. To try to pin it on Holder or the President is a stinkin' pile of shit with even less reality than the Monica scandal visited on Clinton.

This is not a Watergate no matter what the slobbering shitheads on the right think. I hope Holder triples staffing prosecuting the Voting Rights Act in response. That would be the appropriate response to this malfeasance being engendered by Issa and his gang of 17.

I understand the "where there's smoke- somebody must be getting high" position but this ain't Nixon's overwhelmingly felonious administration here.

If you don't like wiki's then there isn't a goddamn thing I can cite too convince you but then teabaggers don't entertain facts in their mindless crusade to dumb everyone down to their level. Parsing soundbite sluts that they are.

Are you angry, Bob?

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Pat I disagree in that in a court of law this evidence wouldn't be able to stand as prima facie evidence of which weapon was used to kill.

It could be argued that, since the people who killed Agent Terry were in possession of F&F weapons, it hardly matters which weapon fired the bullet that killed him.

John

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Holder did recant his assertions of this letter in a later letter. (emphasis added)

If you're referring to the letter to Grassley, they weren't his assertions but those of a subordinate, albeit a high ranking one.

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

If you're referring to the letter to Grassley, they weren't his assertions but those of a subordinate, albeit a high ranking one.

John

His deputy. It did, however, represent the position of DOJ. As somebody who has written responses to numerous Congressional and GAO inquiries for 3 government agencies, I can say with absolute certainty that this wasn't one man's opinion.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Are you angry, Bob?

Just a little ticked. Scratchin' you know. Maybe I outta try some Advantage instead o' bourbon and vicodin?

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by Boreas

It could be argued that, since the people who killed Agent Terry were in possession of F&F weapons, it hardly matters which weapon fired the bullet that killed him.

John

That's one thing we disagree on, my friend. Issa seems to be making it THE central impetus for his wacked out shit. But it's all trivialities in the world of Congrease and their shitassed minions.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

His deputy. It did, however, represent the position of DOJ. As somebody who has written responses to numerous Congressional and GAO inquiries for 3 government agencies, I can say with absolute certainty that this wasn't one man's opinion.

Though born of experience, I think you overstate your strong belief when you characterize it as certainty. In a court of law it would be rightly regarded as conjecture. You can't actually be certain unless you were privy to information which unequivocally established that Holder knew in advance and approved of the contents of the letter.

Then too, there's the carefully parsed words of the letter which leave open the possibility that, though the guns did indeed get into the hands of the cartels, it wasn't part of the plan. Rather it may have been a first class screw up on the part of ATF field agents.

John