Make Ukraine a NATO member nation...right now.

[Ike Bana]

Long past time to quit fucking around with this...

CNBC: Ukraine war live updates: Zelenskyy ramps up pressure for NATO membership; Russia says its border villages shelled

And make Ukraine a European Union member nation at the same time. Putin's fear of Ukraine EU membership, ending any control he has had over the Ukraine economy, was always what this was all about. NATO membership was bullshit geopolitical politics. The Russian economy has always been for shit...without the natural resources the Russians are third world.

Just do it. Unless and until the Russian people rise up and somebody puts a bullet in Putin's head, Russia is a country of war criminals. Russia is no fucking different from Nazi Germany in the 1930's where the German people put Hitler in the driver's seat and looked the other way.

[Oerets]

Agreed!
Do it soon before the election season get cranking full blast.

[Mark B]

Joining NATO requires unanimous consent of NATO members, and getting unanimous consent can be damned difficult.

Germany has indicated that it won't approve Ukraine joining NATO while it's at war with Russia, and Turkey as yet does not support Ukraine joining NATO, while at the same time Turkey is trying to maintain friendly relations with Russia while also supporting Ukraine.

Turkey is also holding up Sweden's membership in NATO over an accusation that Sweden is harboring members of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) and the Democratic Union Party (PYD).

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Mark B

Joining NATO requires unanimous consent of NATO members, and getting unanimous consent can be damned difficult.

Germany has indicated that it won't approve Ukraine joining NATO while it's at war with Russia, and Turkey as yet does not support Ukraine joining NATO, while at the same time Turkey is trying to maintain friendly relations with Russia while also supporting Ukraine.

Turkey is also holding up Sweden's membership in NATO over an accusation that Sweden is harboring members of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) and the Democratic Union Party (PYD).

Humans have all sorts of excuses, mostly related to personal gain, for not doing what is right. What is right in this case is doing everything possible to stop the geopolitical aggression of a fucking war criminal fascist like Putin. As far as I'm concerned, anybody who opposes the immediate membership of Ukraine in NATO is the modern day equivalent of Neville Chamberlain in 1938. In the case of Putin, the appeasement of "oh just give him what he wants in Ukraine and he will go away" is going to lead to one thing. What Putin wants is every former eastern Europe communist bloc country that is now an independent sovereign nation, back under his direct authority and control. He will do it, one country at a time, and the Russian people will be waving flags, supporting it, and keeping him in power, just like another country full of good little nazis did back in the 1930's. So according to the current Germans, what Ukraine should do is just give up, turn their country (which the Russians granted complete, independent sovereignty to in 1991), back over to Putin...and then, when it's not an independent sovereign nation anymore and does not qualify for NATO membership, apply for membership in NATO. Fucking Germans.

IMHO history has shown us, over and over, that humanity is not to be trusted.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Mark B

Joining NATO requires unanimous consent of NATO members, and getting unanimous consent can be damned difficult.

Germany has indicated that it won't approve Ukraine joining NATO while it's at war with Russia, and Turkey as yet does not support Ukraine joining NATO, while at the same time Turkey is trying to maintain friendly relations with Russia while also supporting Ukraine.

Turkey is also holding up Sweden's membership in NATO over an accusation that Sweden is harboring members of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) and the Democratic Union Party (PYD).

Hungary.

[RickeyM]

Would Putin agree to end the war if Ukraine agreed not to join NATO? Would member countries let Ukraine join if Putin won't end the war and pull out? Right now Putin's forces have their hands full dealing with Ukraine's forces. They're in no condition to withstand NATO tagging in. It would be a "fill your pockets with flower seeds" scenario. Also after a year and a half of not taking over Ukraine and then getting stomped by NATO prospects for Putin's future would likely be pretty dim.

[Rajoo]

NATO has a Turkey problem. Culturally and politically, they are not in sync with the west. Like Manchin with the Democrats, Turkey will always play the spoiler because they can.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

NATO has a Turkey problem. Culturally and politically, they are not in sync with the west. Like Manchin with the Democrats, Turkey will always play the spoiler because they can.

The only reason NATO has a Turkey problem is because this country has a problem. This country apparently seems to think it needs it's two air bases in Turkey. And one of them, Incerlik, is a nuclear weapons base. We have 11 active aircraft carrier strike groups...we don't need an air base in Turkey. We have nuclear missle launching submarines...we dont need Incerlik.

Fuck the Turks and the Russians.

If this country is worried that if we close our air bases that the Turks will invite the Russians to open air bases and nuclear strike bases to replacr ours...here's what we do. We let the Turks know that Russian air bases in Turkey will get them the same sanctions that it got the Russians when they invaded Ukraine. What the Turks offer in trade, machinery, vehicles, carpets and other textile coverings, stone, plaster, and cement...is not critical to anybody. The Turks, who have kept Erdogan in power for decades can eat their cement.

[GChief]

Actually those bases are a big strategic asset so there is that.

And I agree, they need to be NATO members ASAP. But that is never going to happen with an active war.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by GChief

Actually those bases are a big strategic asset so there is that.

And I agree, they need to be NATO members ASAP. But that is never going to happen with an active war.

Strategic asset for what?

Can America defend itself? A resounding yes.
Can America defend other countries? A resounding no, not since WW2. So why even bother?

If China attacks Taiwan, can or will we defend them from Chinese aggression? Doubt it. In fact I will even put money on it. We will not start an all out war against any country with nuclear arms for obvious reasons. And with China, every lobbyist will be trying to stop us for economic reasons.

Yes, we need to maintain a worldwide military presence, otherwise lets quit wasting money on defense. Better to put our money in economic warfare than investing in military, actually defense contractors. Doubt if the average person is even familiar with how these defense companies gouge the US government and American tax payers. I do firsthand. Yet we bitch and moan about food stamps.