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-   -   Mass. Supreme Court Deems Fleeing the Police is Justified (http://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=10997)

Boreas 09-21-2016 11:56 AM

Mass. Supreme Court Deems Fleeing the Police is Justified
 
Quote:

We do not eliminate flight as a factor in the reasonable suspicion analysis whenever a black male is the subject of an investigatory stop. However, in such circumstances, flight is not necessarily probative of a suspect's state of mind or consciousness of guilt. Rather, the finding that black males in Boston are disproportionately and repeatedly targeted for FIO [Field Interrogation and Observation] encounters suggests a reason for flight totally unrelated to consciousness of guilt. Such an individual, when approached by the police, might just as easily be motivated by the desire to avoid the recurring indignity of being racially profiled as by the desire to hide criminal activity. Given this reality for black males in the city of Boston, a judge should, in appropriate cases, consider the report's findings in weighing flight as a factor in the reasonable suspicion calculus."
http://www.wbur.org/news/2016/09/20/...to-flee-police

donquixote99 09-21-2016 12:52 PM

An unusual sort of ruling--it is seldom that the courts say one has any right to do anything but submit to law enforcement. A good anti-profiling ruling.

Tom Joad 09-21-2016 01:20 PM

Good.:)

Boreas 09-21-2016 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 331236)
An unusual sort of ruling--it is seldom that the courts say one has any right to do anything but submit to law enforcement. A good anti-profiling ruling.

The thing that bothers me about it is that, while the ruling says that flight isn't probative, it still acknowledges it to be grounds for suspicion and, by implication, sufficient to warrant pursuit where the police can get up to all sorts of mischief. The only thing it would seem to rule out is the application of deadly force merely as a response to flight. That's something, I guess.

Tom Joad 09-21-2016 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boreas (Post 331242)
The thing that bothers me about it is that, while the ruling says that flight isn't probative, it still acknowledges it to be grounds for suspicion and, by implication, sufficient to warrant pursuit where the police can get up to all sorts of mischief. The only thing it would seem to rule out is the application of deadly force merely as a response to flight. That's something, I guess.

Yeah, it doesn't go far enough, but It's better than nothing.

If it was up to me, I'd make it legal for black dudes to return fire when fired upon by the cops.

donquixote99 09-21-2016 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Joad (Post 331243)
Yeah, it doesn't go far enough, but It's better than nothing.

If it was up to me, I'd make it legal for black dudes to return fire when fired upon by the cops.

This is legal (at least in some jurisdictions), but you'd better be able to show you were resisting not unlawful arrest, but the unlawful threat of serious bodily harm. And in the case of police officers, with so many legal assumptions on their side, that 'unlawful threat' part can be very tough indeed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plummer_v._State

Boreas 09-21-2016 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 331244)
This is legal (at least in some jurisdictions), but you'd better be able to show you were resisting not unlawful arrest, but the unlawful threat of serious bodily harm. And in the case of police officers, with so many legal assumptions on their side, that 'unlawful threat' part can be very tough indeed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plummer_v._State

It can be impossible.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...917-story.html

Tom Joad 09-21-2016 03:36 PM

If I'm ever on a jury and it's a black guy on trial for shooting a cop, I'm voting "Not Guilty". I don't care what the circumstances are.

barbara 09-21-2016 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Joad (Post 331253)
If I'm ever on a jury and it's a black guy on trial for shooting a cop, I'm voting "Not Guilty". I don't care what the circumstances are.



Continuing to compromise our justice system is such a good solution. 😏

Tom Joad 09-21-2016 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbara (Post 331255)
Continuing to compromise our justice system is such a good solution. 😏

It's already a done deal that when a cop shoots a black guy the cop gets off scott free, no matter what. All I'm proposing is to try to restore some balance.


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