Four Marines Killed In Tennessee
 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/p...essee/?hpid=z1

WTF? :confused:

Watching this on the news on tv.

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph - the military (the folks that are trained to use firearms and ones you would expect to have them) gunned down. And Marines. MARINES.

Yes, I know the the logistics and current regs - but a sign on a military base door that says "No Guns Beyond This Point" and no one armed to check in this age of military base attacks?

Really?

It was at a recruitment center. Not on base.

I know. Easy target. You would think someone might have thought of that.

Sad news.

In a country with so many guns in the hands of so many bound to happen again and again.


Barney

I was in the Corps for 6 years. I can be and could have been gunned down just as easily as anybody else. I don't know what the Marine Corps environment is like now, but back in the early 70's the only people locked and loaded were in battle zones or on guard duty. And not everybody on guard duty actually had live rounds available, much less live rounds in a magazine and chambered. It's a whole procedure to get live rounds. I doubt anything has changed. Walk onto any Marine Corps base and certainly into any recruiting office in a strip mall and nobody's packing. Nobody should be, either.

I doubt the families of those dead Marines would agree.

As do I. So what? I wouldn't feel any better walking around a Marine Corps base knowing everybody has a loaded weapon on their hip than I would in the mall. Maybe you know something about the Marine Corps that I don't. Maybe you might enlighten me if you do.

Yeh, I suppose in the midst of their grief that they may be susceptible to the NRA's message that the only solution for a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.:rolleyes:

:confused:

That aside, given the increasing # of attacks on military personnel/installations and the very effective marketing campaign ISIS (or whoever you want to call them) is waging - calling repeatedly over social media to attack the military here in the US, publishing names/addresses of military personnel - it would seem logical to increase security at all installations.

Common sense, to me.

Perhaps you could call them and ask them - a rather callous opening to inject an anti NRA message that has no bearing on the military.

Having lived for several years right on the East German border in Fulda, Germany in the midst of the Cold War, I know that US soldiers on patrol on the East German border didn't have loaded weapons. Their ammo was in a sealed box in their vehicles and if the seal was ever broken, they'd have hell to pay. Dod knew full well that it is a decidedly bad idea to give the discretion to start a shooting war to 18-20 year old enlisted men.

I would assert this a different situation - if the military doesn't want the Marines guarding installations against the current threat, contract security is available.

Our perimeter in MD was guarded by rent-a-cops. Wouldn't be my first choice, but better than nothing.

Armed security guards make perfect sense in many cases. Keeping all stateside service members locked-and-loaded is a catastrophe (or many catastrophes) waiting to happen, however.

Wackenhut Security took some guy's briefcase and shot it all to hell back in '83 or '84 - we got a big kick out of it. Never did find out the details, he was prob. reassigned to Adak.

In the present atmosphere your solution makes sense.

Reminds me how we allowed some 200 marines to be killed in Lebanon because we abandoned common sense.

You're absolutely right finn. That's how all branches of the military work with live rounds. They're never going to change it. You open the ammo box and you better have a reason. You open fire on somebody in a public place and you better have authorization...even authorization from the almighty doesn't cover it. When you take the oath you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the Corps.

I walked remote guard posts at Camp Pendleton and my weapon was a night stick. Marines aren't going to be walking around the strip mall with a loaded sidearm on their hip. It's ridiculous. If the Pentagon believes it's too dangerous for personnel to be unarmed in the strip mall, they're close the recruiting offices before they have loaded weapons in them. And we know they won't be closing the recruiting stations.

I really don't like the no guns policy for Military personnel.

I would have no problem with recruiters wearing sidearms and with them having some rifles locked up in the back room. Hell we let fat assed civilian cops wear them everywhere and the military is a Helluva lot better trained than they are. (With the exception of the Air Farce of course).

I don't think so.

I worked part time for Wackenhutt for a while.

You'd be better off just putting out a scarecrow.

http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/z...02484882em.jpg

As one who drives on to a military base everyday the above is not a solution....you just make the line longer outside the gate so a terrorist can just blow up all the people waiting in their cars.

The real problem is that any recent ISIS brainwashed convert can just waltz to nearest gun show and pick up some automatic weapons. THAT is the real issue.

Plus this is a recruiting station....open carry at the Marine Corps recruiter office will scare the parents of little Jack and Jill who wants to join the USMC....public relations plays a big factor at these career centers.

Why?

It's not called the Armed Forces for no reason.

Civilian cops always have guns on their hips.

Doesn't seem to deter their recruiting.

And how exactly would that have helped stop a guy driving up in a rented convertible and unloading a magazine through the front window from the parking lot?

Many parents are wary of their kids joining the military. Having a recruiting station looking like an FOB in Iraq will turn off many who are cautious or ambivalent about enlisting.

Maybe this does not apply as much today in our bad economy as it did before when the military had a hard time getting people to join.

They do not execute or give life sentences to AWOL/deserters either for the same reason...public relations. If they find an old person who left the military AWOL 30 years ago they usually just quietly discharge them.

Just because you have weapons locked up does not mean you are ready for a terrorists. To station armed guards at every recruiting station in the USA would be a huge financial and personnel burden on the armed forces. The recruiters cannot go out into the community with weapons on plus they cannot guard their stores and recruit at the same time.

Obviously you left the Air Force eons ago;)

First of all he might have thought twice about trying it if he knew those Marines could return fire. Second of all any kind of return fire is likely going to throw off the shooters accuracy, and/or cause him to break off the attack sooner.

Yes

Even when I was in Iraq if a person fired his weapon in a non-combat situation...like someone who thought clear your weapon in front of the chow hall meant shooting a round into the sand barrel...there was a real big investigation.

If civilians were as careful and regulated as Armed Forces personnel we our gun problem would not be as bad.

The dude seemed all too ready for his rendezvous with a passel of virgins.

Your solution would only work if we had bunkers built by the front door of every recruiting station and snipers on the roof. I'm not sure that strip malls owners would acquiesce to this.:rolleyes:

Who said armed guards?

The recruiters are in the military.

They can guard themselves, just issue them sidearms.

And if civilian cops can walk around the community with sidearms so can military personnel.

Now you're being deliberately stupid.

The only place I have seen military enlisted personnel walking around with loaded firearms is Iraq.

Yeah and third world countries where the military likes to throw its weight around by carrying weapons in public to intimidate everyone. Get real.

What the fuck are mommie and daddy doing in the recruiting office?

This isn't day care that little Johnnie or little Jane is signing up for.

It's the Goddamned Marine Corps!

http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/z...daptations.gif

Nobody went with me to the recruiting office and I sure as Hell didn't go with my kid either. :mad:

20% of Iraq veterans have PTSD. I'm not sure I want tens of thousands of armed PTSD sufferers walking the streets of America. On this thread, you sound like you have succumbed to the brilliance of Wayne LaPierre.

Your contempt for the men and women of our Military is duly noted.

Tom Joad you have described a Dr. Strangelove version of America where the gun problem is so great that even military personnel have to arm themselves in public to protect themselves from other Americans with guns. Sad to say you may be describing the true situation.

Contempt for the military? No, contempt for your silly, Wayne LaPierre-like position on arming every service member stateside. If the Army didn't arm its soldiers defending the Fulda Gap, I don't think we need armed service members defending strip shopping centers stateside.

FWIW, I spend the first 40 years of my life as an Army brat and Dept of Army Civilian and have done work on nearly all Army and Air Force installations in the 50 states and dozens more scattered all over the world from Germany to Italy to Belgium to Holland to Turkey to Korea to Japan.

You are so clueless in this thread that it makes my head hurt.

I don't see why the military doesn't have guns on base. Three rampages against them in the last 5 years... Time to have at least somebody with some firepower.

You already described out Military as a bunch of PTSD sufferers who can't be trusted with firearms. If that ain't contempt I don't know what is.

And as for your experience as a civilian contractor, I have about the same level of contempt for them as I do child molesters. All they are are war profiteers.

Oh, and BTW, JJ's fears seem to be unfounded.