More guns = more gun violence.
 

Yep. Any per capita study confirms it as well. In 1997, less than a year after the UK's Dunblane school massacre, the British government zipped it's collective spine back in and virtually outlawed any handguns, assault weapons and any other "automatic" firearm. And now our firearms homicide death rate is 40 times that in the UK, and the total firearms death rate including suicide, accidental, unintentional and undefined causation is close to twice that rate.

If Roof had walked into the AME Church with a butcher knife he would have hurt one, or possibly two people before the rest of the parishoners beat him unconscious, if not to death, with folding church chairs.

This country's democratized gun carnage is not a matter of the control of gun distribution, it's a matter of mankind's unique predilection for barbarity. The only way out of it is to re-affirm the actual intent of the 2nd Amendment (or preferably repeal it altogether), and get handguns and other automatic weapons out of circulation. First offense for possession, 1 year. Second offense 10 years. Third offense, life. No excuses, no mitigating factors, no appeals. Get caught, go away.

Lib naysayers can say it's impossible. Well...it was impossible to elect a black POTUS in my lifetime. It's been impossible to elect a woman POTUS, but we may see that impossibility ending soon, and only 95 years after women got the right to vote...which was impossible for only 145 years.:rolleyes: It was impossible for the people to rise up against the government and force it to end the Vietnam war. The only thing that makes this impossible is too many people saying it's impossible. We outnumber the NRA gunners by millions. And...nobody wants to take away anybody's single shot break down long barreled shotgun. Anybody who would qualify for ownership under strict, unrelenting regulation, that is.

Day after day, a friend of mine keeps posting (in another forum) instances of "good guys" stopping "bad guys" from committing mass shootings and other crimes, mostly committed with.......guns. This is his evidence that more guns IS the answer. What he fails to see is that the vast majority of gun related violence wouldn't have taken place AT ALL, if not for the way we interpret the 2nd Amendment. Forget the "good guy with a gun stops bad guy with a gun" meme. Every firearm, every single one of them, started at a legal source and somehow all too many of them end up in the hands of criminals and lunatics. More guns within such a gun permissive society truly does = more guns in the hands of bad guys.

Our horrific gun related violence stats are testament to that fact.

I haven't researched this in a while, and I'm tired of researching it every time this stupid fucking argument rears it's ugly, zit-covered head...so I'm referring to data that may be 3 or 4 years old.

For every successful defense of person utilizing a handgun, there are 43 wrongful handgun deaths in this country.

The argument is utter anecdotal bullshit. These people oughta be held to an answer as to whether the 43 innocent victims matter to them or not. It's a simple yes/no question, with a simple yes/no answer.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_7739380.html


I guess the grandfather needed a weapon in case someone broke into his house.
Bet he wished he had never bought it after this.

I guess people just leave loaded weapons lying around the house.

All the above true - now, how to remove/take firearms from the population in an effective manner that will stand up to legal challenges?

Once you open Pandora's Box, damned hard to close it up.

No one said it would be easy.... But we gotta start somewhere. Wringing our collective hands after each mass shooting isn't getting us anywhere as far as solutions go.

Is Australia a legitimate model to impartial examination, taking into account what statistics and those who compile and interpret them?

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It's even more stupid than you say. The pistol was left lying around loaded and cocked, so that only low trigger pressure was necessary to fire it. This is ridiculously unsafe, an accidental discharge waiting to happen even if only adults handle the gun.

A three-year-old wouldn't be able to fire a revolver double-action, or rack an automatic. The gun had to be already cocked.

The child wouldn't necessarily have to "rack" the slide to fire it. See here...

http://www.personaldefensenetwork.co...fired-pistols/

"The amount of force or weight of the trigger pull in many of these firearms is very similar, in about the six- to seven-pound range."

"Striker-fired semi-automatics were made popular in the 1980s by Glock. Although the company was not well received in the beginning, it has become one of the most popular defensive pistol brands in the world. The striker firing mechanism uses a spring-loaded firing pin that works more like the launcher in a pinball machine than that of a traditional pistol with a hammer. This spring-loaded pin is partially cocked by the movement of the slide. The trigger then cocks the pin the remainder of the way and releases it to strike the primer and ignite the cartridge."

Whoever left the pistol unsecured where the child could find it should be prosecuted.

Because of the absurd way in which the 2nd Amendment has been interpreted by the SCOTUS, the only way is to repeal it.

That will never happen.

Or, really, the only way it will happen is if there's an armed insurrection in the country and the "rights" under the 2nd are suspended and, in the aftermath of the insurrection, the 2nd Amendment is repealed.

In other words, that will never happen.

As long as the gun fetishists have this thing by the short and curlies, nothing will change with our God given right to become a potential target in a public shooting gallery.

The punishment with these occurrences is usually self inflicted, knowing something you should have done or didn't do made you responsible for something nothing can make right.

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Ike.... I recently read the same statistics except the article I read said that it did not include suicide or accidental shooting for the wrongful deaths.

But is it not possible that with another 4 or 8 years of Democrat control of the Executive Branch that a new solid progressive majority in the SCOTUS could hear another gun case brought to the high court, and the current 2nd Amendment interpretation could change?

Nor do I believe the 2nd will ever be repealed, and I blame that on liberal indifference, and liberal gunners who want their handguns and gun rights just as much as the cons. They just don't tell anybody.

It's been a long time since I freshened up my gun lore. Wasn't familiar with the 'striker fired' pistols. Still greater trigger-pull effort than a pistol at full cock, but the shorter trigger pull distance would certainly tend to make it more doable by a young child.

This leads to the question whether the gun manufacturer can be held liable and sued for a million or two. :rolleyes:

A while back I found a worldwide comparison chart of firearms data with all this stuff broken down. Homicide, suicide, accidental, undetermined were the categories I remember with accompanying data for each individual category. I'm trying to find it, but without luck so far.

But what I remember is that in the firearms homicide category, the US was at 2.97 per 100,000 and the UK at .07 per 100,000, or over 40x higher here. I believe in that chart the total rate including all categories of firearms deaths was over 70 times higher here than in the UK.

There are some third world countries where even our rate looks like a great success. Particularly in Central America and the Caribbean where it's not unusual for the homicide rate to exceed 25 per 100,000. In places like El Salvador and Guatemala between 35 and 40 per 100,000 and Honduras...the highest rate I've found, just under 70 per 100,000. The worst city I've heard of may be Port Moresby, the capital of Papua New Guinea where they say you can triple the rate reported by the government which is somewhere in the 50's.

It's a barbarous world and humans are locusts with intelligence and technology.

From local news. 74 year old protected himself with his gun when two teens decided to rob him.

http://www.wsmv.com/story/29480245/p...ied-to-rob-him

Oh, and no charges have been filed, because the man was within his rights, as it should be.

And for every one successful defense...... There are forty three homicides by handguns

That just seems a bit lop sided to me.

http://www.the-broad-side.com/wp-con...24235105_s.jpg

http://www.the-broad-side.com/guns-f...versus-reality

"My anecdote trumps your statistics every time."

Nah.... Don't think so.

This doesn't surprise me:

http://www.businessinsider.com/congr...ewnewed-2015-7

This isn't the UK. In America, you can bet the people will not willingly hand over their guns.

I'll ask this. How do yall expect to get peoples guns? You aren't going to be able to count on our military alone to take on this task. Reason I say that is because most of the military and vets I've talked to claim there is no way in hell that they would take part in it, but fight against it. Yes, I know some would, but some wouldn't. My point being it would divide our military. Yes, the UN could jump in and make it happen. But again, you really want to live through a time like that in this country? And know you wanted to make it happen?

So, are liberals seriously proud to say they'd look fwd to a major bloodbath in this country? I imagine it'd turn into one. I for one hope to never see it.

From this link:

Collateral damage from the Second Amendment? And they don't get to vote.

And the standard answer from Bonehead: “I’m sorry, but a gun is not a disease. Guns don’t kill people — people do. And when people use weapons in a horrible way, we should condemn the actions of the individual and not blame the action on some weapon.”

I found a very similar lopsided number at...

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...-self-defense/

And the actual research report from the Violence Policy Center at...

http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable15.pdf

The numbers from this report come to 32 to 1. So we're doing so much better as a gun culture than we used to back when the number was 43 to 1.:rolleyes:

This ain't the fuckin' UK...we're 'Murcans...nobody's takin' my gun but from my cold dead hands. I may have raging Alzheimer's disease but you're not gettin' my guns.

You're point, William is inane. And as a Marine Corps vet with six years in, three stripes on my sleeve, and a Rifle Expert Medal with the M-14...I'll tell ya that a whole lot of the last people I've run into who I ever want to see with access to firearms are fellow vets from the Corps.

It's simple. It becomes a felony to possess anything other than a long barreled non-automatically loading, non-gas operated, no clip hunting rifles, or a break down single shot long barreled hunting shotgun. All my creepy fellow vets who need a glock under their pillow can deal with a shotgun under their pillow...and they can have all of those they want. Don't want to take part in it? Don't want to willingly hand over your Beretta or your Smith and Wesson, snub nose .38? Fine...go directly to fucking jail, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. And I don't give a shit in Joe Dunford's utility cover if you don't like it. And if the military is recruited to do the job, then they follow orders and do it. Or they don't belong in the fucking military. STFU and do what you're told...this is not a discussion.

The people of this country have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they do not have the maturity to be the proud beneficiaries of a 2nd Amendment.

You either care about the next 20 or 30 innocent 6th grader victims of the next democratized gun bloodbath in this country or you fucking don't. Which side are you on, eh William? It's a simple question.

If you take a look at the statistics you will see we already do have a major bloodbath in this country.

How will we get the guns away from people?

I'm not a bit sure we will. But if we ever do, it will depend on who's doing it and how big a hurry they are in. We can do it in about a generation the same way people were persuaded to love them. Just use ideological influences of every sort--school, media, pulpit. In a word, propaganda.

Or we can declare martial law, send the troops around, and kill anyone who resists. President Obama will never do that, but some future right-wing nazi might.

Donq.... Remember when everyone smoked cigarettes....
Took a generation of ideological influences to turn that around.
I think you are on the right track with your suggestion.

Maybe things are different where you live, but I see people smoke here everywhere. Even a few factories allow it ( yes I know your in shock about it ) but with welders everywhere, burning steel, other chemicals and welding aluminum to steel under antifreeze the bosses say you got a risky job.. shut the fuck up and smoke all you want to.. the guy next to you'll probably die from the shit he breathes in this plant long before second hand smoke can do him a minute trace of detectable harm.

Not going to say which, but I was in a government building and they smoke in there.. ash tray on desk and tables.

Also saw an old man mailing a package in front of me and the folks behind the desk said not a word to the old guy paying his postage with a lit cigarette in his mouth. But that is not the government building I was referring to that ALLOWS it.

Also to be mentioned, you'll still read things about God in Government buildings here. Read something that surprised me the other day in the new building they set up. It wasn't always there as they just built this one not to long ago, and you'll read about God in there. And if you live here, you'll have to walk in that Government building at least twice a year.

We also have Bible History in public school ( not private, not Christian but public ). And prayers at school games, graduations to and being it's never a local that shouts out about the loudspeaker prayers.. we really don't care how they feel. Oh yeah, we still have paddles that Get Used On Children's Behinds in Public School here. Folks never believe they use paddles these days.. until they move here and nearly faint when they read it on the form you sign explaining it when they register their child for school.

Life differ much where you live?

We plan to get the North Koreans to do it for us.

I'm not really worried about it. Seriously, the libs have been screaming since I can remember but they always fall flat on their face each time they get their hopes up that they'll see that magic vote that guns will be going bye bye. ;)

Well...seriously, it's seriously personal for me. So you can fucking plan on me screaming as long as I'm around to scream.

My guns are just tools, they don't define me or my life. I could live without them but feel somewhat more secure out of city limits being able to defend myself and mine from assault.

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That is sorta how I am. Only difference is I don't appreciate anyone telling me that we're not mature enough to own guns, like Ikey Boy shouts. Heck even alot of girls have carry permits here, but I just don't see people getting all shot up by good guys here. Gosh, I know that a man got beat to death by another man bare handed and no weapons used ( both visiting our lake from other counties.. and a guy moved here from NY and stabbed a girl to death that was nice enough to rent him a room, but few gun cases. Very few, and not by a legal permit holder. You see, it's the scum that does the killing, and whether the honest folks have guns or not, they'll always have theirs. Just makes their balls grow bigger when they know the good folks don't have protection.

I am totally opposed to concealed weapons except for professionals. I don't see where the Second Amendment was meant to allow this. So if you carry a gun, do it openly so that everyone knows you are armed. It's only fair and wonder how many would really want carry a hand gun with them in public. I suspect not very many.

I'm not understanding this. Lawful concealed carry is just more civilized than openly packing heat.

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Yes, life is much different where I live.