How would you fix the economy ?
 

This is a subject that is very close to all of us. How or what would you do to "fix" the economy ?

Grumpy

Fix the economy
 

Gotta hand it to you Grumpy, you ask the easy questions.

Not so sure that it can be fixed. Kind of like an old car, you can patch it up, put it back on the road, and get a few more miles out of it. But sooner or later it's gonna die.

Eventually, we will have to change the order of things. I was hoping that wouldn't happen on my watch, but I'm beginning to think that I may be SOL.

The problem is we live in a world full of people. Technology may have changed, but people haven't. We're no different now than we were when we first crawled out of a cave and beat supper to death with a rock. We just dress better, and talk a better game.

Kinda sad, but when push comes to shove, the veneer of civility disappears pretty fast,
Chas

Put your finger right on that one, Charles. :)

_________________________________
Fix the economy?

Try some "trickle up", that "trickle down" hasn't worked for shit.

Leave the Government out of it and barter.

Cut the tax bill big time in one easy stroke - pay politicians minimum wage, put the Congress and Senate in dormitory housing, serve the School Lunch Program in the Senate Dining room, and make voting attendance mandatory. Have them all share staff, too. No more limos, we'll put the dorms close by so you can walk to work. Maybe then some people who care about our country instead of lining their pockets will run for office. :cool:

Take back all the bail-out money. YOU FAILED, why should my tax dollars provide you a free roll?

Try caring about your employees (or constituents) well-being as much as the bottom line. There's more than one way to be rich.

Here's one idea that I've recently been enlightened from. Austrian economics.
NO bailouts to anyone. Let the businesses fall and get it over with.

I always thought it was a bad thing, bankruptcy, but it turns out to really be a blessing for many when it happens. The business looses it's problems with paying bonuses (like AIG), the folks that help run companies into the ground are sent packing, what's left of the ashes will be picked up for a great price on the dollar by other companies looking to grow.

Now I understand that not all people hurt by a business closing did something wrong but the way I see it is like a healing process. You get the bad over with as quickly as you can so the healing can take place. I look at all of the car folks as well as all of the outsourcing people. They've all been treading water that cannot be beat.

Would it have worked out for the better if GM had gone bankrupt, reorganized, sold off some of it's plants to maybe an upstart electric car manufacturer and started anew? GM gets out of union contracts and health care that's hurting their competitiveness, another outfit buys a tooled factory for pennies on the dollar to grow.

Sure some of the GM folks would be without jobs at the end of the day but they're going to anyway sooner or later.

I use GM only as an example. It could be any company.

I just don't see how the Government meddling in businesses helps anyone. The next step is the new owner of GM/Chrysler telling them that by 2014 they will be making cars that average 35 1/2 MPG. Good luck with that.

Todd, I like your ideas as well.

Bob

Exactly!

Some of the money pundits will say that all these bail-out moves are to protect the infrastructure of the economy... I say if the current infrastructure landed us here, why bother?

In my opinion... Drop the big one!!...it will upset the global communications network...and travel will be reduced...then you will have more LOCAL exchanges going on...and not all the BS from some dumb-ass 1500 miles away telling us what to do all the time...we will have to make our own decicisions again ...like it used to be back before long distance communications,...

or not....;)



OH YEA!!..just dont drop it on me!!!

The answer
 

Cut the tax bill big time in one easy stroke - pay politicians minimum wage, put the Congress and Senate in dormitory housing, serve the School Lunch Program in the Senate Dining room, and make voting attendance mandatory. Have them all share staff, too. No more limos, we'll put the dorms close by so you can walk to work. Maybe then some people who care about our country instead of lining their pockets will run for office.


I like it. While we're at it, let's hire Arlee Ermy to kick their asses out of bed at 4:00 hours sharp, and have them standing tall at their posts by 4:30. Keep 'em sober too.

I've said for a long time, if you want to fix the minimum wage, socialist security, and health care, put the politicians on the same level as the lowest slob in the country. But they'd just mandate that everyone gets free medical at Walter Reed, 200K per year retirement, and, it you were still willing to work, a 200K salary per year plus all you can steal with both hands.

Don't reckon it will work.



Here's one idea that I've recently been enlightened from. Austrian economics.


Ludwig Von Misses?

Chas

Lots of good reading on mises.org :)

Term limits for all politicians, make all politicians have to use the same retirement plans and health care plans they foist on the rest of us, cut taxes, massive cuts in government programs, no government funding for arts or federal department of education, unfetter innovation in the private sector, and put food production back in the hands of smaller farmers and growers.

It might not work, but I would like to give all these things a try.

the problem with the economy is that the gap between rich and poor has to grown to such a point that the poor can no longer afford to buy all the crap the rich are trying to sell to them.

the costs of healthcare have driven our manufacturing base into the toilet. eliminate the insurance companies. they're all crooks. socialize medicine there, i said that ugly word). healthcare should not be for profit.

increase spending on education. a better educated workforce is more productive, and better qualified for the work.

decrease spending on wars. war is hell, and it is expensive.

legalize and tax drugs. i've read that 80 billion a year leaves our country and goes to support terrorism. this doesn't count the money that's being spent on drug enforcement.

change the laws that make it more profitable for industries to produce goods in china and other places instead of here in the US. that's a big reason why unemployment is so high. i can remember when "made in USA" meant something.

fine the hell out of businesses that are paying illegal immigrants. if there is no work here for them, they'll go home, americans will get those jobs.

break up all the big corporations. no company should be allowed to get so big that its failure will do significant damage to the nation's economy. for goodness' sake, that's what the sherman anti-trust act is for. use it.

too many people in this country are making money from investments. that's money for nothing folks! that money has to come from somewhere, it is coming from the poor people who have to pay more in order to cover the shareholders and it's coming from the workers who are having their benefits cut, being forced into early retirement, etc.

if you want to make money, work for it and save.

damn, i figured i'd get flamed for sure.

Why? sounded pretty good to me.

Here's your flame bro.

"increase spending on education. a better educated workforce is more productive, and better qualified for the work."

We are overspending on education. Kids are stupid and have been given a free ride for so long that they don't feel the need to work or be smart, they're still entitled. Ever try to read what younger folks are writing? It's about as smart as ebonics, fail.


"the costs of healthcare have driven our manufacturing base into the toilet."

I don't buy that being the only reason. I may be wrong but I'll bet it's more regulations that harm manufacturing. The government has gotten so big that there are no more checks and balances.

I read the That's Outrageous column last night in Reader's Digest. In the last paragraph the author said that the people need to watch the politicians and what they are doing. WE CAN'T ANYMORE! It's hidden and no one has time to listen to any more than 15 second sound bites.

BTW, short of installing a bunch of old time farmers in DC, I have no idea how to fix the mess we are in. Just speculating like the rest.

These stupid kids, are they my children or your children?
also,
I personally have never equated Ebonics with education but rather with culture. Are country folk less educated because they don't speak like a TV broadcaster?

What do you mean by old time farmers and why do you feel they would be of value now?

To diverge slightly am I the only one who is offended by seeing Wall St. wrap themselves in the flag?

smart move on their part.

I think this country was headed for a class war as pointed out by soundhound (I believe I am accurately referencing him) in another thread and the wall street greed machine is a big reason.

Hey a little bit of class warfare might relieve the boredom, torches and pitchforks anyone? :rolleyes:

Quit sending money overseas, and make all the deadbeats here in the USA get jobs.:p

I would legalize drugs, this would do several things;

1 Raise money for public works, health care, etc.

2 Starve the Mexican and Columbian drug lords.

3 Bankrupt the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Anyone who wants to fry his brain on coke or meth is perfectly free to do so, drugs would be so cheap that they would not need to steal to support their habit.

Pushers would no longer have a profit motive to get young people hooked on drugs so eventually the market would dry up except perhaps for marijuana for people with terminal illnesses.

Drug war solved.

What, no arguments?

Drugs will never be legal.

Drugs=Bad

Bad=Illegal

It's ashame they were ever made illegal because now people think you are trying to legalize sin.

The same with sex.

The same with gambling.

I'm with ya on this one Rob.:eek::D

I figure its time to revisit this question after 5 months. Did the economy get any better to make you change your thoughts on how to fix this mess ?

They need to hurry up and set a watchdog on Wall Street, they are still playing silly buggers.

They need to hurry up and stop lining the pockets of those that don't need it.

I don't know, but I am really starting to think that the US economy is not fixable anymore.The corruption and greed has taken a hold of all of US aspects of the US citizenry to such an extant that any meaningful discussions will not take place to correct things. Just look at the negative discussions around health care. Having all of your citizens healthy and able to contribute to your country is an obvious GOOD THING, but those discussions turned so ugly it just beggared belief.
So, how are you going to make the real hard decisions that will be needed to turn the country around? For instance, the manufacturing base of American needs to be restored. People have to start being willing to pay more to purchase US made goods, and pay much more if needed, to kill the huge trade deficits. The trade deficits are a huge cut to the jugular of the United States, and real wealth is just pouring out of the country. There will be no economic recovery until the trade deficits are corrected. But who will tell Americans they need to stop buying Japanese cars right now or purchasing Chinese DVD players at Wal-Mart for $39? Who will tell the corporations that they have to stop exporting jobs and closing down plants in the US and take the $.05 per share hit of the bottom line?
To be honest, it looks like something worse than the depression is going to be needed to turn America around. And from what I see, the worse is still ahead of you guys....

It has always been that way. Just an FYI.

You know, I really don't think that it has. Sure there have been elements of it, and greed and corruption go wherever people are, but the level of hatred and vitriol has just escalated beyond anything I could imagine in the last 10 years. Greed? I think the late 80's is where started going all out of control.

Well, globalization has worked out pretty well for the super wealthy and their hip pocket politicians...but not so good for the rest of us.

Starting to look like that crazy assed Ross Perot was right.

Chas

why did we need labor laws-OSHA----the FDA 100 years ago


what we are dealing with is human nature and it has not changed

I agree with you on all but the health care, just the thought of the government running anything else just doesn't sit well with alot of us folks. They have their hands in enough as it is. Can't forget all those loans they told banks to lend folks with no money down, and nothing to show for. Alot of those folks couldn't afford those loans the day they took them out, but the good ole government thought folks needed a fair chance to own. It backfired on down the road though, and look who gets to pay back the bailout money.Again, no loss to the government, only to the poor ole taxpayers for many years to come.

I agree, we should be buying US automobiles, and I've owned upto that my whole life by driving GM,Ford,and Mopar over the years, and still do. I won't be buying another from any of the big three for years to come though, mine'll run for probly two more decades with the parts I've collected knowing sooner or later they'd get hard to come by. I frowned on cash for clunkers, but had to giggle a bit in anger as I wondered how long the temporary spikes in sales is going to hold them now that cash for clunkers is dead and many folks are still shit outta luck lookin' for work, or worried they will be and won't buy a new car.

Things from that place they call Wally-World? Again, I agree that folks need to buy American, even if it cost more at the checkout. Only problem is, what can we buy that is still American other than a street whore offering a one night stand? I remember when ole Sam was alive, Wal-Mart was always glad to offer ''Made In America'' products and had signs asking folks to buy American. But ole Sam died a good ole soul and his survivors let his stores go strait to hell afterwards. I still enjoy 30 year old audio gear, and wouldn't buy a damn thing new these days. Well, I can still buy new gear that ain't made in China, but I'm way to poor for the price I'd have to pay, so I have no problem enjoying the old ''built to last'' gear that the public could afford to buy new then. I bought three brand new DVD players a few years ago, but only because I went through two of them in less than a year from Wally World and the third lasted a whole six movies and started freezing up so I said the hell with it and ain't bought a single DVD or worried about watching DVD movies again in the last couple years. Odly enough though, our 'old' VCR still works flawlessly, but I don't see new movies for sale for them so still, I don't watch new movies til they old enough to be seen on the regular tube.

I feel like Microsoft is a money circle also. Look at all the folks that have bought new PC's over the years and before they knew it, MS threw a new OS out there and stop supporting the old. MS is still doing it, exept so many folks raised hell about it, that MS decided to keep supporting XP a while longer rather than stop supporting it as planned in June 08. Vista is a resorce hog and alot of folks still have machines that'll last for years to come but can't run the new bloated OS. MS knows that too, and again, folks'll have to go out and buy a more powerfull machine. Why should old folks have to do that if they only need a PC to check email once a week? I feel their old windows 98 should be good enough, but no, MS is greedy and expects folks to keep on buyin' ... and never mind that alot of elderly are on fixed incomes and get a needed lift when chey check email and see an email & pict of the grandkids that may live halfway cross the country that they may only get lucky enough to see twice in person before their time on earth is through.

Reading about the demonstrations down the road yesterday and maybe I was wrong. I am starting to believe that they should not have done any bailouts and they should forget about healthcare.

Figure that by now unemployment would be arouns 25% or more. The lumberyards would be so badly in need of business that the wood to redo our deck would be dirt cheap. Able bodied men would be only too happy to get some money that that they would work for $5.00 per hour.

After all we have health care insurance, I am retired so screw the labor market. Yeah, I should adopt the Jack System "Screw you Jack, I've got mine":rolleyes:

As bad as bailing out the banks was, I suppose it was necessary to prevent a collapse of the financial markets. It's not that the bailout was rotten, it's the financial markets, and the Federal Reserve system that are rotten. As to the stimulus pkg, it could have been better thought out.

Personally, I enjoy seeing people turn out to these tea parties and town halls. It shows that the public is finally taking an interest in politics. And are expecting our elected officials to look after the interests of the citizens, as opposed to the interests of the deep pockets who have put, and kept them in office.

But in the end, I doubt whether anything will improve our lot. I'll continue to turn out and vote for the perceived lesser of two evils, and pray that they don't start another civil war before I'm dead. Kind of a selfish attitude, but then again, why should I be any different than anyone else.

Other than I won't screw you simply because I can.

Chas

Same here.

I am in favorer of national health care but this is just not how to do it.

I do not support Obama on this.


(and I detest the right for twisting, lying and undermining what they know is best for the people that elected hem)

Please tell me what is wrong with Medicare.



I think everyone should live one year in 1900 before they champion themselves a proud capitalist who is against progressive government.

Tea Parties hoho, the original was kind of staged as well. The colonies asked the mother country for troops to put down the Indian raids on the western front. The mother country sent the troops and also sent the bill in the form of the tea tax, after all why should the citizens of England pick up the tab? The fact that the tax was also to help out the East India company, and General Cornwallis was an incompetent bumbler did not really affect the outcome.

It is much the same today, people say the government is incompetent, then for Heaven's sake don't vote for them. If you want to know what the problem is look in a mirror. Lou Dobbs favorite expression is that both parties are wings of the same bird. Then start a new party, some of you like Ron Paul (too simplistic for my taste) some people did vote for Ralph Nader and the Green party. The whole concept of a two party system seems entrenched in this country. Keep going down that road and you will never see any improvement. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

What were the lyrics - "Freedom is just another name for nothing more to lose." Like it or not people need each other, it is called society, and no, screwing each other is not the way to achieve it.

Some folks like to believe that this is a Christian nation, well apparently this form of Christianity only has nine commandments.

Fine post, Rob.

What is wrong with how he is doing it?

Other than the fact that he is keeping too much of the free market in an area where there is a HUGE conflict of interest between the insurance providers and their customers?

Other than the fact that it will be broke before I get there, eventhough I and my employers have been paying in based on "MY" income, nothing! Wait a minute, it does not work well without supplements, so like many things the gov't manages it is a half a** solution that makes a great issue to promote when you are looking for the backing of the AARP.

They might also learn to be self reliant, responsible for themselves and family and be productive, now there is a scary thought.