Foreign Relations - the Chicago Way
 

http://www.examiner.com/article/obam...uclear-program

"In a development that has largely been missed by mainstream media, the Pentagon early last month quietly declassified a Department of Defense top-secret document detailing Israel's nuclear program, a highly covert topic that Israel has never formally announced to avoid a regional nuclear arms race, and which the US until now has respected by remaining silent.

But by publishing the declassified document from 1987, the US reportedly breached the silent agreement to keep quiet on Israel's nuclear powers for the first time ever, detailing the nuclear program in great depth."

That'll teach Bibi to speak to Congress without permission, much less daring to get himself re-elected!

So, we're de-classifying info about Isreali nukes, and we're helping Iran go nuclear. Someone needs to tell my why we're hell bent in staring a nuclear arms race in the Middle East....

We're helping Iran get nukes? :rolleyes:

Washington Examiner - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Examiner

"The Washington Examiner is a political journalism publication based in Washington, D.C., that distributes its content via daily online reports and a weekly magazine.[1] It is owned by MediaDC,[2] a subsidiary of Clarity Media Group,[3] which is owned by Denver billionaire Philip Anschutz[4] and which also owns the influential conservative opinion magazine The Weekly Standard.[5]" Wiki

Sure looks that way. We pull back on the sanctions, and Iran agrees to slow down its nuke program. If Iran agrees to the deal and complied, they'll be nuclear in 10 years or so. If they agree to the deal and then fail to comply, which given their prior behavior seems more likely, they'll be nuclear when they're ready, and they'll have had sanctions eased in the process.

Its a great deal if you're The Ayatollah...

The article I posted was not from the "Washington Examiner". But I suspect you'll like "Examiner's" source article even less. :rolleyes:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...5#.VRRAy9Lkvq2

Ah, the "silent agreement".............Did they take a blood oath, double dog daring anyone to tell as well?

Israel has nukes............

Ooooooooo, the secret is out.:rolleyes:

Dave

Right! Not a soul knew they had nukes until the Pentagon opened their big mouth!

Yes, it will. It also paints a clear picture of Netanyahu's true concerns about the possibility of an Iranian weapons program. If Israel isn't the only nuclear power in the neighborhood, it'll be a bit harder for them to be the bully.

What a stupid thing to say!

And the "Chicago style" trope is so, so tired!

But, if you want to use it, try being fair. Wouldn't you say that the letter from the 47 traitors, the invitation to Netanyahu to come over here and trash the President and the Republican's collusion with Israel over the P5+1 spying intel were pretty "Chicago style"

:rolleyes: Typical neocon groupthink. Loved the title of this thread though...dog whistle much?

I especially liked the Breitbart link. :rolleyes:

Truth hurts, doesn't it? Even Senate Dems are complaining about how the Iran deal is proceeding, how it spells trouble in the Middle East. The Saudi's, who have been interested in nukes for a while, are reportedly ramping up talks with Pakistan for nuclear technology. And if you think the Turks are going to sit by and watch their neighbors nuke up, you're in for a surprise.

As far as the "47 traitors", get over it. You lost the argument about whether there was a violation of the Logan Act. Continuing to call them "traitors" is akin to the old saw about "repeating a lie often enough..." Besides, a who buncha Dems showed up to hear Bibi speak. Are they traitors too?

So, you cut out everything in my reply having to do with Israel because you don't have a response. And you don't have a response because your whole premise is absurd on its face.

Then you spun out fantasies about a nuclear arms race in the Middle East. Apparently, you're doubling down on your assertion that Obama is desirous of the Iranians acquiring nukes but you still can't back it up.

The betting is over. Show your cards.

And I never mentioned the Logan Act, violations of which don't constitute treason. Neither did I mention the Netanyahu speech. The 47 traitors actions go far beyond merely engaging in diplomacy. They deliberately attempted to sabotage the P5+1 negotiations and preemptively any other international negotiations the Obama Administration might choose to engage in.

Hey thanks whell.

In other related stories from the examiner.com:
-Social media questions why Michelle Obama has gone bald
-Two teenage girls join ISIS, become pregnant, and are now begging to come home
-Jessica Biel hits beach: Actress doesn't wear bikini during beach stroll (Holy shit! how did I miss this???)
-Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty uses graphic speech to emphasize good and evil

It's blogs, whell. By their own admission there is absolutely no editoral review of articles by the management of examiner.com. "They're blogs. They don't get edited. We don't give any direction to people on what to write in their blogs. And that's standard operating procedure." - Jim Pementel, Executive Director of Examiner.com.

PS - So who released this intel. The Pentagon? The Obama administration? The Pentagon as ordered by their Commander in Chief?

PSS - WTF does somebody from Detroit know about the "Chicago Way" other than what he's heard from lifelong Chicagoans like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity?:rolleyes:

Excellent post, Ike.

I love it when people post their biased opinions backed up with biased links that cite other biased links as "proof" of legitimacy.

A rightwing hack posts a Newsmax article that cites "truth" they dug up at the Heritage Foundation and ALEC websites..............LOL!

Then there are the social media memes. "I saw it on FaceBook, it HAS to be true."

Dave

Wow! Wow! Israel has nukes!

I've heard rumors that the Russians have them too! HOLY SHIT! Better duck and cover, 'cuz Ivans coming to get us!!!!:eek:

Dave

Mordechai Vanunu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu

At the time the report was declassified, we knew that Netanyahu was coming and we also knew (because we told Bibi to keep his trap shut) that they had breached the security of the P5+1 Talks so the timing is by no means coincidental, IMO.

So, actually, there's something pretty significant about this but it's all symbolism. What the US is telling Israel is that our support for them has limits. By declassifying a 30 year old report on the Israeli nuclear weapons program, the US didn't tell the world anything that we didn't already know but the US certainly did tell the Israelis that our patience has limits.

John

No response is required to your standard anti-Israel blather because the blather is "absurd on its face."


What do you want me to "back up"? Do you deny that the Saudis have been wanting to get into the nuke game? Do you deny that the Sunn- Saudi regime would be concerned about an imbalance of power in their own backyard if Shiite Iran got the bomb?

The hell you didn't.

Dude, you're becoming unhinged if you can't remember what you said from one day to the next.

Apparently you both missed post 5.

Here's what's significant. If Kerry and Obama get their way, it appears that Iran will have the free reign to pursue a bomb after 10 years in exchange for lifting sanctions. If the Iran behaves like Iran usually does, they'll sign the agreement, have the sanctions lifted, play games with the nuke inspectors, and then somewhere inside the ten year period tell "the great Satan" and the rest of the West or go screw themselves. They'll then take a page out of North Koreas playbook and start playing nuclear blackmail.

Someone still needs to tell me why this is a good thing.

Frankly, if I were Israel, I'd be trying to breach the security of the P5+1 Talks because those talks appear to be all about making my country and my neighborhood really, really insecure.

That Obama wants the Iranians to get "the bomb" would be a start.

Nope!

Nope!

First off, the Saudi interest in nuclear weapons is nothing new and instigated by the fact that Israel, as everyone knows, has them. So, yes, the potential for a "Shia Bomb" is of concern to them but I think they're a great deal more concerned that Israel has a bunch of them.

Secondly, no country that wants an H bomb wants it so they can use it. It's the old MADD game. Any country that launched a first strike would be obliterated in a matter of hours. The Iranians and the Saudis... and even the Israelis... know this and none of these countries is suicidal.

Third, the idea is to create a multi-polar Middle East. Nobody in the region likes the idea that there's only one country in the region with Nuclear capabilities. (Okay, they probably REALLY hate it because it happens to be Israel.) Getting a bomb changes the calculus, shifts regional hegemony away from Israel. That's why these countries want nukes and why Israel is so apoplectic about it.

Fourth, Iran is a signatory to the NNPT. Israel isn't.

Sheesh! You know what I meant! I didn't mention the Logan Act in the post you were responding to!

http://politicalchat.org/showpost.ph...10&postcount=7

Oh, I remember alright. I also remember that I separated the charges of committing treason from violating the Logan Act because, you know, they're different. And "from one day to the next"? Try March 9th.

Apparently you're unable to comprehend Blue's post.

What international treaties has Iran signed and then violated?

What sort of "games" have they been playing with the IAEA inspectors who have been in Iran for a long time now?

Might help if you read what I wrote. I have no clue if Obama "wants the Iranians to get the bomb". The objective has - at least as stated - to keep the Iranians from EVER having the bomb. The reports so far suggest that we're prepared to offer a moratorium in exchange for lifting sanctions - a chance in policy that Iran's most recent behavior fails to justify. A moratorium with Iran - based on their past behavior - seems rather pointless. Also, there's no question that we've given them cover to continue what they allege is a nuclear energy program, and no one really believes that Iran's nuke program is all about energy.

Bull Shiite. The Saudis know that the Israelis have nukes for defensive purposes. THIS is why the Saudis want nukes:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10139229.html

In 2012 the Saudi Arabian government threatened to acquire nuclear weapons were neighbouring regional power Iran ever to do so.

“Politically, it would be completely unacceptable to have Iran with a nuclear capability and not the kingdom,” a senior Saudi source told The Times newspaper at the time.

The United States and other Western allies say a deal with Iran on its nuclear programme is possible. Iran denies it is building nuclear weapons.

The history of mankind is replete with examples autocrats and dictators who fail to pay attention to rationality or the lessons of history.

Baloney. See quoted article above.

So what? Iran certainly isn't behaving like its gives a rat's ass about the NNPT.

What, so I'm not supposed to remember your comments in prior posts? If memory serves, multiple prior posts??

Per my prior post, do they truly behave like they give a crap about the NNPT? Also:

http://www.unitedagainstnucleariran....on-of-treaties

So Mike what option do you suggest, shed more blood and money by invading? Or maybe drop a cobalt bomb on them?

How could that possibly serve our interests? Not a logical deduction imo.

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Its not that hard, really. We just need to figure out who our "friends" or allied in that area of the world are going to be, and proceed accordingly. We either leave a vacuum in the region where the promotion and protection of our national interests and the stability of our allies used to be. Or we continue to pursue some kind of half -assed strategy where we position ourselves to look harmless and feckless to both allies and our enemies alike which invites instability and props up and provides political cover to those countries, like Iran, that want to export mayhem and mischief while building a nuke program that no one believes is all about domestic energy.

After Bibi's recent antics, one could argue that we have no real friends in that area of the world.

Pfft. Its the darnest thing that some folks seem to want to heap the entire dissolution of the relationship between the US and Isreal on Bibi. Yet, we're the ones at the bargainig table providing political cover for Iran's nuke program. Freaking Iran, who have said repeatedly that they want to wipe Isreal off the map.

Meanwhile, while we're negotiating with Iran, we've left a vaccuum in Iraq that Iran has stepping into, and Iran's friends the Houthis have turned Yemen upside down. So, taken to the extreme, one could make the case we've also left the Saudis twisting in the wind 'cuz they've got Iranian forces or friendlies on their northern and southern borders.

Really, what the hell are we doing? :confused:

I don't think that regardless of our historical relationship and support, we owe them approval on everything they do.

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I don't disagree. However, historically if you have an ally, you don't act in ways that are potentially / probably harmful to their interests.

I was thinking the same thing.

John

Of course, that's not what finn said.

You seem to be forgetting that there are five other countries involved in hammering out this deal and we also don't know what will emerge. Plus, with the leaks all coming from Israel (and Israel via the Republicans) I'd say we can't put very much faith in them.

This was always guaranteed to happen once Bush/Cheney blew things up. The Shia majority was always going to look to Iran for a return to stability. And AQI/ISIS was born out of the chaos we created.

The Saudis, to a large degree, are responsible for this mess by funding the Salafi fighters like ISIS and the Khorasan Group so it's as much a case of chickens coming home to roost as anything else. That being said, we've not hung the Saudis out to dry. We're helping them in their operations against the Houthis and AQAP.

Whatever we're doing, it's better than the alternative. If we paid attention to our "ally" Israel (and McCain and Graham), we'd walk away from the talks and bomb Iran.

Thinking of all the friends we lost due to the failure of our political leaders after 9/11 saddens me.

Nope. What I'm not forgetting is that there's only one country in that negotiation that is truly capable - though I'm not sure about willing - to hold Iran accountable for anything that's agreed to.

Oh ferfuksake. Things in that region of the world were "blown up" long before Bush/Cheney showed up. And the AQI / ISIS observation is laughable.

Factions within the Kingdom are, yes. Though lately there are reports circulating that we provided some funding for the Salafi bunch too. What a mess!

Idiotic. No one supports "bombing Iran". Attacking their ability to go nuclear, yes. But no one is advocating an attack on the legit gov't of Iran (such as it is).

American Exceptionalism shows it's ugly ass. Russia could handle this all by themselves. So could China and even Germany. And, apart from anything else, even though we have the capability, we would never undertake such a thing on our own. We'd need the cover of a "Coalition of the Willing" and UN sanction.

I suspect the average Iraqi (or Syrian or Yemeni or Lybian or even Israeli) would strongly disagree.

We probably funded them indirectly through the good offices of Prince Bandar bin Sultan. As for the "factions", they're either largely or entirely within the House of Saud.

Yes, what a mess indeed!


Of course they do and do you really think the Iranian "man on the street" or, for that matter any man on the street, would view "surgical strikes on the Iranian nuclear infrastructure as anything other than "bombing Iran?

Supporting Israel hasn't worked. We jump through hoops to pander to them for what? Religious fairytales aside, what has Israel ever really done for us other than serve as constant magnet for unrest? It's a waste of time and an exercise in pointless, dogmatic repetition of bombings, peace talks, Zionist expansion, more bombings, more peace talks, more bulldozers clearing the way for Zionist Expansion, more bombi...................................

Are you getting the picture? "Holy Land" my ass. There is nothing "Holy" about that bloody side show. Never has been and never will be.

Dave

GUILT.

And Zionistic fervor continues to beat us over the head with it.

Fuck 'em.