Is this a hate crime?
 

This is a two day old incident but is gaining quite a bit of traction within the US Muslim community and also internationally. And significantly, yet another shooting and killing in Copenhagen, Denmark, what is being called a terror attack.

The killer in Chapel Hill is an avowed atheist and probably a hot head and I don't see this as a hate crime, though FBI is now involved. In Copenhagen though, it is continuation of the revenge against cartoonists that depicted Mohammed unflatteringly. Is this terrorism?

In Chapel Hill Shooting of 3 Muslims, a Question of Motive

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/12/us...lina.html?_r=0

One dead in terror attack in Copenhagen

http://cphpost.dk/news/one-dead-in-t...gen.12662.html

It is not abundantly clear that they were killed because they were Muslims.

I believe Muslims are anxious for a "we too suffer".

The burden of proof on a Hate Crime is pretty tall...

Most premeditated murders are hate crimes- hate the guy that's taking your parking spot, hate the guy that's screwing your wife, hate the world and kill your family or a bunch of people at a mall, hate your former boss for firing you, etc.
We have defined hate crimes narrowly, as hatred of a religion or a race.

Well the guy in Chapel Hill is pretty screwed up, he describes himself as an 'atheist minister'.

He also described himself as a gun-toting liberal who thinks religion is a bad thing. A little close to home for a few people around here, eh?

The point of viewing a crime as a 'hate crime' is not that the killer feels hate, it's that a particular target group feels hated, that is, threatened and terrorized. In this way hate crimes harm many people besides the direct victims. That is why enhanced penalties are appropriate when members of particular racial, ethnic, or religious groups are targeted because of their identity.

Don't know if there's evidence that this guy was motivated by the Moslem identity of the victims....

Balderdash. I don't think there are any likely murderers on this board.

Neither do I, but they better hope they never have to use their weapon in self defense, because everything they ever posted here will be used to twist their actions to fit a narrative. That's why you never use a silhouette target while target shooting. Some douchebag lawyer will say you were obsessed with killing.

A person is way more likely to get killed by someone with a gun than to use his or her own gun in self defense.

Actually, the exceptions implied by the above bolded text are often the very ones that fit the legal definition of a hate crime. A hate crime is other-directed. Your examples aren't.

John

Killing the three unarmed execution style as reported will get the same result if he is found guilty will it not? So Hate or not if guilty do your worst penalty NC justice system.

If a Muslim had killed three Christians over a parking spot also as reported, (BS meter pegged BTW) would there be any doubt of the outrage and the let get THEM mentality?



Barney

If a Muslim were to kill three Christians execution style, most here in the US will call it terrorism. In this instance though the killer is a gun toting atheist liberal (by his own definition) and this act makes him an out of control nut case, who also happened to have a CCW permit. I don't see how this can be construed to be a hate crime and I think the Muslim community is orchestrating a "we are victims too" scenario.

He's just some redneck who thinks that being an atheist makes him a liberal.

John

In the meantime, are the "nones" morally rudderless?

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinion...e-alright.html

I don't think so. Being unaffiliated with any particular organized faith/construct doesn't make one incapable of living by the 'Golden Rule'.

Interesting article, thanks.

Religions claim to be the source of the moral sense, but they aren't. They co-opt it, make use of it, and, sometimes, pervert it.

Oh really and whatever gave you that idea? :rolleyes:

The only weapon on I'll ever have to use in self defense is a foot and a half of half-inch rebar.

David is not always clear in his opinions and I suspect that he did not equate not attending any church with being a non-believer. Florence and I do not attend any church but we certainly cannot be described as non-believers.

Morality or whatever you want to call it is a result of reasoning and organized religion does not have a corner on reasoned thought.

I have a nice hardwood Billy Club that ought to make a suitable impression on anyone.:)

Guys who walk around in public with guns are either clinically paranoid or have little-bitty pee-pee syndrome.

No just selfish. My right to have a hard on over carrying a weapon outweighs the damage being done by those who use them on innocent people like the three who were killed in North Carolina. The ultimate statement of the me generation.

Disco was the boomer's ultimate statement.

This gun thing was a part of our culture long before the children of our greatest generation came of age.

Disco to my knowledge has never killed anyone.

Just because a tradition is old does not mean it is not evil. Slavery was a part of our heritage also. That poster boy for CCW in NC was not a member of a well regulated militia.

The gun thing? You can't be this ignorant, can ya? During the long before time you're talking about, the "gun thing" was about long barreled hunting rifles. Not Glock 17's and AR-15's.:rolleyes:

Sure...but I'm gonna have to extend this a bit. The ultimate statement of the actual "me" generation is the re-interpreting of the 2nd Amendment as "stand your ground." The real "me" generation is full of right-wingjob christians whining all day long about how they're "oppressed.":rolleyes: