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donquixote99 12-01-2014 05:03 PM

Causes of Crime
 
This is a spin-off from the Darien Wislon thread. A conversation has started that is more general than the Wilson affair, touching on whether the 'entitlement theory' mentioned repeatedly by Zeke is the correct and sufficient way to explain crime. To start, I'll quote a post of Zeke's from that thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 250631)
No.

I make the point but you're not intellectually brave enough to see it because it absolutely will destroy pollyanna thoughts like those you profess. Here's a thought: Google "entitlement causes crime." Then, Google "entitlement does NOT cause crime."

I'm being serious.

There are, quite literally, pages of research done on the topic. Do you know what the major difference between the two searches is? Google tends to omit the word "not" because there aren't enough relevant search results containing that word. Meaning? I could deluge with citations any time I wanted to but what's the point? You refuse to live in the Real World.

Many folks who feel entitled to another's stuff will try to take it. Sometimes, they get themselves shot. Those who do not feel entitled to another person's stuff shouldn't feel remorse about harm coming to those who would try to take.

The bigger question is why some people believe they are entitled to a bauble, treatment, manner of living, etc. and do NOT try to shortcut obtain it. Personally, I believe it's because they've had a single person in their life -- just one -- who said, "that's not yours, you can't have it, you have to work for it."

In many urban societies, that person doesn't exist or is dead via violent crime because nobody told THEM the above. :(

There's your problem.

Had Michael Brown been parented at five he may not have been appropriately shot at fifteen.

EDIT: wait, something clicked. We're not using the word the same way. I mean personal entitlement, not entitlements as a noun.

Now what I did is what I said I'd do, in response--I looked at the Google search. I'm now going to share an annotated list of what I found. After the list, I'll comment a little more in a second message.

Google Results
annotated list
Search = entitlement causes crime

PAGE 1:

1. http://geraldguild.com/blog/2013/02/...r-perspective/

Interesting essay with footnotes, on blog of a practicing clinical psychologist. Makes case that unpunished corporate crime does much more harm than the criminal acts of the despised poor/minority offenders that fill our prisons. Does not address the idea that entitlement causes crime.

2. http://crimeisachoice.blogspot.com/2...elings-of.html

The URL cut off the word 'entitlement' in the title. This blog page is on topic. It does not contain research, the page in question is basically a book report, but it may point to research underpinning 'entitlement theory.' Look further here. Note essay at http://crimeisachoice.blogspot.com/2...arcissist.html entitled "The Criminal, the Narcissist."

3. http://www.salon.com/2013/10/24/5_wa...t_entitlement/

Interesting essay takes the position that men feel entitled to indulge in predatory sexual behavior because the culture in effect gives them permission to. Cites some research. Worth more study.

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_...ogical_factors

Some mention of social entitlement along with a number of other theories. references.

5. http://books.google.com/books?id=lZw...0crime&f=false

Google Books result for "International Handbook of White Collar and Corporate Crime" Cites research indicating role of culture-based feelings of entitlement in the case of white collar criminals.

6. http://www.oldsquare.co.uk/news-and-...l-social-entit

not relevant

7. http://www.academia.edu/6201439/Trip..._-_Madfis_2014


Article
Triple Entitlementand Homicidal Anger:An Exploration of theIntersectional Identitiesof American MassMurderers
Eric Madfis
1
Abstract
In the Unites States, middle-class Caucasian heterosexual males in their teenage years and in middle age commit mass murder, the killing of at least three victims during a single episode at one or more closely related locations, in numbers disproportionately high relative to their share of the population. Utilizing an intersectional theoretical approach, this article investigates the convergences of (1) white entitlement, (2) middle-class instability and downward mobility in the postindustrial economy, and (3) heterosexual masculinity and its relationship to violence. Such analysis concludes that, among many mass killers, the triple privileges of white heterosexual masculinity which make subsequent life course losses more unexpected and thus more painfully shameful ultimately buckle under the failures of downward mobility and result in a final cumulative act of violence to stave off subordinated masculinity.

Full text provided at this link. Research paper on topic. Read.

8. http://bluenationreview.com/privileg...kathryn-knott/

Anecdotal 'report' on specific alleged offender. Not research.

9. http://psych.stanford.edu/~monin/pap...010%20JPSP.pdf

"Victim Entitlement to Behave Selfishly"
Research article, full text, not on topic.

10.
http://www.studentpulse.com/articles...of-entitlement

Opinion essay. not research, and not on-topic of 'entitlement causes crime.' Example from 2011 of conservative 'moral hazard of welfare state' critique.

----------------------
PAGE 3:

3. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...3154129AAKuCLE

Yahoo Answers: question is "Why don't liberals realize that entitlement mentality causes crime?"

8. http://www.crimefilenews.com/2010/07...t-zombies.html

racist rant, made-up facts.

sheltiedave 12-01-2014 05:10 PM

Don, technically, Zeke is right. He said there were PAGES of research, not VOLUMES. And you literally have found pages. ;):D

donquixote99 12-01-2014 05:19 PM

First reaction:

First, the above material indicates that 'entitlement' is a factor identified by serious researchers into the motivations of crime. There does not immediately seem to be consensus, though, that it is the The Single Great Simplifying Principle, to be assumed in exclusion of other factors in all cases and circumstances. The topic is interesting and I intend to read further.

Second, I didn't find 'right wing trash sites' dominating this topic from the beginning, as I sort of expected. Didn't really start hitting right wing ideological matter until item 10, and them no more until the two examples noted from page 3.

This idea does attract the interest of ideologues, as I suspected, but it is not dominated by them, as I also suspected.

At this point I want to share a link to a short opinion essay from the New Yorker, which does suggest the very usage of 'entitlement' for 'social insurance benefit' is a victory for right wing critics:

I’m Entitled, You’re Entitled

This essay goes a ways in explaining my suspicions about the 'entitlement theory.'

sheltiedave 12-01-2014 06:46 PM

And here is the jingoistic phrase... "In diplomacy it is called 'semantic infiltration,' i.e., getting your adversary to start using your terms in a negotiation."

The Republican Party is brilliant about measuring and defining their terms of engagement, and entitlement is going to become one of their favorites in years to come.

The cops have already extensively abrogated it, and mutated it from a clinical social psychological context to a criminal behaviour context, which it is not meant to be a definitive term. People do not commit crimes because they are entitled, they commit crimes because they are criminal in their decision, behaviour, and social actions.

ZeroJunk 12-01-2014 06:49 PM

Quote:

do not commit crimes because they are entitled, they commit crimes because they are criminal in their decision, behaviour, and social actions.

Chicken/Egg

Zeke 12-01-2014 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk (Post 250737)
Chicken/Egg

Concur.

That said, kudos on DQ's research confirming what I said (lots of stuff available, not a crank idea) and the tacit admission that I pulled nothing from a hat.

I, too, intend to read further.

Shit, good stuff.

That's why I come here.

Thanks, DQ. Well done.

finnbow 12-01-2014 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheltiedave (Post 250736)
People do not commit crimes because they are entitled, they commit crimes because they are criminal in their decision, behavior, and social actions.

Saying that criminals do criminal things doesn't speak to motivation, it states the obvious.

What really sucks is when people try to rationalize (even memorialize) serial incidences of criminal conduct by an individual.

Tom Joad 12-01-2014 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 250710)
A conversation has started that is more general than the Wilson affair, touching on whether the 'entitlement theory' mentioned repeatedly by Zeke is the correct and sufficient way to explain crime.

Zeke is a dick.

donquixote99 12-01-2014 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 250744)
Concur.

That said, kudos on DQ's research confirming what I said (lots of stuff available, not a crank idea) and the tacit admission that I pulled nothing from a hat.

I, too, intend to read further.

Shit, good stuff.

That's why I come here.

Thanks, DQ. Well done.

You're welcome. Happy reading.

finnbow 12-01-2014 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Joad (Post 250748)
Zeke is a dick.

He sure makes you seem like an idiot blowhard, though most others do too.:D

Zeke 12-01-2014 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Joad (Post 250748)
Zeke is a dick.

Who has owned you.

donquixote99 12-01-2014 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 250752)
He sure makes you seem like an idiot blowhard, though most others do too.:D

OK, this is my thread and I want no more of this shit. Goes for you too, Tom.

Of course Zeke is a dick. Everyone knows. But who isn't? There are bunches of dicks around here. Even I have my moments....

But we don't have to be dicks all the time, do we?

sheltiedave 12-01-2014 09:01 PM

Let us all pause for the paws that refreshes, and embrace our dickdom :confused:

ZeroJunk 12-01-2014 10:22 PM

The problem I have with all of these opinions of cause and effect does little or nothing to determine what needs to be done now. Un ring the bell or whatever. IMO we can blame racism, entitlements, whatever from now until the end of time and it won't change anything.

Tom Joad 12-01-2014 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 250755)
Who has owned you.

You will never, ever, as long as you live, ever be able to get the best of me.

You could be having the best day of your life, and I could be having the worst day of mine and I could still get up off my deathbed and whoop your sorry ass. .

icenine 12-02-2014 12:28 AM

According to the Cleveland Media Group crime is hereditary:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...s_history.html

Zeke 12-02-2014 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Joad (Post 250765)
You will never, ever, as long as you live, ever be able to get the best of me.

You could be having the best day of your life, and I could be having the worst day of mine and I could still get up off my deathbed and whoop your sorry ass. .

Before or after figuring out I'd put you there without trying? :rolleyes:

JJIII 12-02-2014 05:36 AM

Thanks go to DQ for the time and effort.

donquixote99 12-02-2014 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk (Post 250764)
The problem I have with all of these opinions of cause and effect does little or nothing to determine what needs to be done now. Un ring the bell or whatever. IMO we can blame racism, entitlements, whatever from now until the end of time and it won't change anything.

One step at a time, ZJ.

Depending on what causes crime, a given idea of what to do about it may work well, or poorly. Like, if crime is caused by people not caring if others disapprove of what they do, we have to teach kids to be more social and connected to others. Or, if crime is caused by people not fearing punishment, we have to make punishment more certain, and fearsome.

Or if Dostoevsky is right, work programs might be a good idea....

Quote:

Deprived of meaningful work, men and women lose their reason for existence; they go stark, raving mad.
Fodor Dostoevsky

BlueStreak 12-02-2014 07:05 AM

I just don't buy that anyone goes into a life of crime.........simply because his mother fed him on food stamps. To my mind it's a ridiculous notion, regardless of who wrote however many pages about it.

And the obvious attempt of American rightists to tie criminal behavior to "entitlements" in such a broad sense is nothing more than mass manipulation with a purely political end in mind.

Dave

Oerets 12-02-2014 07:10 AM

Some of the biggest crooks were born with a silver spoon in their mouth. But when entitlement is mentioned the first thought is to the other end of the social spectrum.


What the WASP need to understand is the entitlements they were born with in this country. Ones that the simple fact of being born white entitles you to in this country. This that are taken for granted without a thought too.

Barney

donquixote99 12-02-2014 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icenine (Post 250766)
According to the Cleveland Media Group crime is hereditary:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...s_history.html

If true, that would suggest the that the things to do are eugenic breeding, or even genetic engineering....

Quote:

“A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.”
― Aldous Huxley, Brave New World

finnbow 12-02-2014 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icenine (Post 250766)
According to the Cleveland Media Group crime is hereditary:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...s_history.html

That wasn't at all the point of that article. If anything, it makes the argument of nurture over nature.

donquixote99 12-02-2014 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 250777)
That wasn't at all the point of that article. If anything, it makes the argument of nurture over nature.

I don't recall it containing either nature or nurture arguments. It just reported some family history.

Is it nature or nurture? Yes.

finnbow 12-02-2014 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 250779)
I don't recall it containing either nature or nurture arguments. It just reported some family history.

Is it nature or nurture? Yes.

That is nurture (i.e., the environment in which a child is raised, as opposed to his genes).:confused:

There has been ample research on the negative impacts of domestic violence upon children in the home.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...adb_story.html

ZeroJunk 12-02-2014 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak (Post 250773)
I just don't buy that anyone goes into a life of crime.........simply because his mother fed him on food stamps. To my mind it's a ridiculous notion, regardless of who wrote however many pages about it.

And the obvious attempt of American rightists to tie criminal behavior to "entitlements" in such a broad sense is nothing more than mass manipulation with a purely political end in mind.

Dave

One could argue that the expansion of entitlements was political.

If they did not overwhelmingly vote Democrat the entitlements would be reined in.

In the long run they are unsustainable.

finnbow 12-02-2014 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk (Post 250783)
One could argue that the expansion of entitlements was political.

If they did not overwhelmingly vote Democrat the entitlements would be reined in.

In the long run they are unsustainable.

Spend a few days at the LBJ Presidential Library in Austin and it may change your opinions about entitlements. It's an awesomely inspiring place.

The passage of "entitlement" legislation was indeed political, as is every single piece of legislation. That doesn't make it wrong/bad.

"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members."

- Mahatma Ghandi

ZeroJunk 12-02-2014 08:19 AM

Quote:

Ones that the simple fact of being born white entitles you to in this country
If your parents have stuff you inherit it. If your relatives own or are in high positions in small business which is where most job creation is they hire their relatives' and friends kids.

If you quit school or even finish and don't learn anything of value to any employer whose fault is that. Oh, the schools of course.

merrylander 12-02-2014 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 250786)
Spend a few days at the LBJ Presidential Library in Austin and it may change your opinions about entitlements. It's an awesomely inspiring place.

The passage of "entitlement" legislation was indeed political, as is every single piece of legislation. That doesn't make it wrong/bad.

"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members."

- Mahatma Ghandi

Also any nation's greatest asset iis its citizens, would not be a wise move to husband that asset?

merrylander 12-02-2014 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk (Post 250783)
One could argue that the expansion of entitlements was political.

If they did not overwhelmingly vote Democrat the entitlements would be reined in.

In the long run they are unsustainable.

Someone needs to tell the Dutch, the Danes and the Swedes that they are doing the impossible.:)

donquixote99 12-02-2014 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 250780)
That is nurture (i.e., the environment in which a child is raised, as opposed to his genes).:confused:

There has been ample research on the negative impacts of domestic violence upon children in the home.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...adb_story.html

Seems to me the report supports both theories, as the parents may have created said environment because of genes that they then passed on. As I indicated, I don't see why the nature/nuture argument is often either/or. There is evidence for both, and no reason to think that one rules out the other.

ZeroJunk 12-02-2014 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 250786)
Spend a few days at the LBJ Presidential Library in Austin and it may change your opinions about entitlements. It's an awesomely inspiring place.

The passage of "entitlement" legislation was indeed political, as is every single piece of legislation. That doesn't make it wrong/bad.

"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members."

- Mahatma Ghandi

I don't have a problem with entitlements in general. To the extent we don't end up with a 17 trillion dollar debt . But, if you have people living longer and longer you can't continue to have retirement at 65, 66, 67 and pay them 30 years.

Welfare or whatever they are calling assistance to the poor these days really is not a huge driver of the debt.

ZeroJunk 12-02-2014 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merrylander (Post 250792)
Someone needs to tell the Dutch, the Danes and the Swedes that they are doing the impossible.:)

If everybody had a strong work ethic we wouldn't have any problem with it here.

merrylander 12-02-2014 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk (Post 250787)
If your parents have stuff you inherit it. If your relatives own or are in high positions in small business which is where most job creation is they hire their relatives' and friends kids.

If you quit school or even finish and don't learn anything of value to any employer whose fault is that. Oh, the schools of course.

There is your blind spot Zero, the function of our schools should be to teach young people how to think for themselves. It is not their function to produce mindless robots for Corporate America. Especially as so many corporations get sweetheart deals that excuse them from paying school taxes like the rest of us must..

merrylander 12-02-2014 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk (Post 250795)
If everybody had a strong work ethic we wouldn't have any problem with it here.

Really, so are you suggesting that we have full employment? Hardly likely to happen when it is the Fed's job to keep unemployment at around 5%.

Pull your head out once in a while and take a look around.:)

Tom Joad 12-02-2014 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak (Post 250773)
I just don't buy that anyone goes into a life of crime.........simply because his mother fed him on food stamps. To my mind it's a ridiculous notion, regardless of who wrote however many pages about it.

And the obvious attempt of American rightists to tie criminal behavior to "entitlements" in such a broad sense is nothing more than mass manipulation with a purely political end in mind.

Dave

On top of that rich people commit way more crime than poor people.

The difference is poor people go to the slammer, rich people get bailed out.

Take that $700 Billion dollar bailout the Wall Street Banksters got in 2009.

In 2009 the average convenience store hold up netted $761.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convenience_store_crime

So that bailout was the equivalent of 919,000,000 convenience store stick ups. 919 MILLION. That's 3 convenience store stick ups for every man woman and child in the US. Hows that for an entitlement?

icenine 12-02-2014 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 250777)
That wasn't at all the point of that article. If anything, it makes the argument of nurture over nature.

Actually Finnbow it is a lame attempt by the Plain Dealer to sort of excuse the shooting of a 12 year old boy with a toy gun by the Cleveland Police department.

piece-itpete 12-02-2014 09:21 AM

The PD is a leftie rag.

If we should be nurturing our citizens feel free to send me a check ;)

Thanks DQ.

Pete

Tom Joad 12-02-2014 09:23 AM

How Entitlements for the Rich Cheat the Rest of Us
 
http://www.commondreams.org/views/20...-cheat-rest-us

Quote:

The word 'entitlement' is ambiguous. For working people it means "earned benefits." For the rich, the concept of entitlement is compatible with the Merriam-Webster definition: "The feeling or belief that you deserve to be given something (such as special privileges)." Recent studies agree, concluding that higher social class is associated with increased entitlement and narcissism.

The sense of entitlement among the very rich is understandable, for it helps them to justify the massive redistribution of wealth that has occurred over the past 65 years, especially in the past 30 years. National investment in infrastructure, technology, and security has made America a rich country. The financial industry has used our publicly-developed communications technology to generate trillions of dollars in new earnings, while national security protects their interests. The major beneficiaries have convinced themselves they did it on their own. They believe they're entitled to it all.

Their entitlements can be summarized into four categories, each of which reveals clear advantages that the very rich take for granted.
continue

Tom Joad 12-02-2014 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 250752)
He sure makes you seem like an idiot blowhard, though most others do too.:D

Number one, you and your bagger buddies do not constitute "most others".

Number two, I have less respect for ya'll than I do for the people who stick their gum under their seats in Movie Theaters.


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