Police Officers Fire 600 Bullets into Car Knowing It Contained a Hostage, Killing Her
 

"To protect and to serve':rolleyes:

http://www.mintpressnews.com/video-3...illing/197948/

The important thing was the 'overwhelming force' be used, and be seen to be used, against those seeking to forcibly appropriate corporate assets. The life of the citizen-class hostage was...not important.

http://aattp.org/watch-thirty-three-...ing-her-video/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zro9LpwFPXk

Mind boggling to say the least. This from local news.

Police Chief Eric Jones said Tuesday that he has asked the non-partisan, Washington, D.C.-based Police Foundation to undertake an outside review of the incident.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2014/...bout-shooting/

Non-partisan? Do they mean 'impartial?'

Are they serious?

In their own minds they probably think they are seriously addressing the problem. Baltimore has called in the FBI and Justice Department to determine why so much brutality goes on in their police force.

Less biased account.

1. There were originally three hostages.
2. Police action saved two.
3. There were three suspects/gunmen armed with semi-auto weaponry.
4. There was an hour long chase through Stockton, CA.
5. Hundreds of bullet holes were found in 14 police vehicles, citizens' cars, homes and businesses.
6. Imminent threat to society at large.

You stop this threat when/where you can, even at the loss of a citizen.

"GOOD SHOOT." (Yes, it sucks.)

Get a grip... :rolleyes:

So the bad guys opened fire first?

Pete

While I don't know that answer, I am aware that in the commission of a felony using semi-automatic rifles, it really doesn't matter.

The presumption is that use is imminent, especially when you possess hostages.

In your world probably! High speed chase and gunfire saves lives of two hostages. Wonder how that headline would sound.

"Two of the hostages were wounded after they were apparently ejected from the moving SUV, during the police chase. After a gun battle, of epic proportions—33 police officers fired no less than 600 bullets—two bank robbers, and the other hostage, Misty Holt-Singh, was killed, after being shot no less than 10 times."

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/10...-mother-video/

The police were to blame for the death?

Pete

In a very literal analysis? Yes, they were. You are responsible for every bullet that you fire.

But context matters.

Stop the public threat. That's the job.

If you're not willing to do that, you shouldn't have the job.

Yes, it WILL keep you awake at night.

I find it surprising that people blame the cops when it was 100% the bad guys fault.

Pete

Well, given that police filled the hostage with bullets, we want to understand the tactical options better.

It's been suggested, for example, that it's might have worked out better to back off the running-gun-battle idea, in favor of tracking the suspects with the helicopter that was in the air, and then surrounding the suspects when they stopped.

Mostly, it's because they possess little concept of what the ethics of the job involves.

"Public safety." PUBLIC.

There's a point -- and it's malleable -- where a threat to public safety (including the lives of officers) demands you take action when you will absolutely lose a single life (even if an innocent).

Playing God?

Yes.

That's the job.

The difficult part involves chases. Given any choice, you don't want to engage in them. Stop or contain the incident BEFORE one starts.

If you must become engaged, you have to end it as quickly as possible if suspects are deemed armed. You can't just passively track/allow armed individuals to roll unimpaired through neighborhoods where they can harm others, separate, escape, etc. (That's just horrifically naive. Then, you have THREE hostage situations.)

It grows all around iffy, which is why many municipalities do not condone chases by their officers unless the most dire of circumstance.

But, even were that the case here, hostages qualify.

It's easy to Monday Morning QB if you don't know the rules...

I think you and every Goddamned Cop that thinks like you should be fired and never allowed to work in law enforcement again.

I'm an honest law abiding citizen who has never been in trouble with the law and I think you're an arrogant prick.

How in the Hell are you going to be able to deal with the people in the community you serve if you come off like that to someone like me?

Again, even if you were accurate in your assessment, an example of rank ignorance. If you don't like how the game is played, change the rules not the folks hired to follow them. "Think like I do?" That's the training. If you don't like it, start there.

But you'll fail because what is taught has been validated over time, codified into actions, and sanctified within the responsibility of those willing to perform a function you clearly could not (and there's nothing wrong with that: I walked away from such things).

That's just the way it is but, by all means, continue with you ineffective and overemotional missives. :rolleyes:

Some local perspective:

The police chase went from stockton to Lodi and back to stockton..... On the way, the gun battle and chase went through residential areas and past at least two schools (I think it was three schools but can't verify) at the time children were being released from classes. Law enforcement from several different municipalities and the sheriff were in pursuit. I know several people who live in neighborhoods where the chase occurred and their homes have the bullet holes to remember the event. There was, without a doubt, a high risk of danger to many innocent bystanders.

As for the helicopter..... Not sure the S. J. County sheriff department still has one. This county is one if the poorest in the state and back around 2004/2005 they had to sell the helicopter they had because they couldn't afford to fly or maintain it. Since that time, I have heard that a helicopter was donated but, still no money to actually fly the thing. I'm not sure what the current status is..... But it has been at about ten years since I've seen a sheriff helicopter in the sky around here.

It's horrible that Misty was killed and that her daughter had to witness the abduction. But, hey.... This is stockton we are talking about....

Ah, it's Stockton. Well, excuse me. My mistake.

Forget I said anything.

Exactly.........
This is what people have come to expect in a culture where gun ownership is nurtured and the collection of automatic weapons gives one special status.

Isn't this a wonderful culture we've created?

Not in the slightest. :(

A few folks on this board lament that fact that police are not Andy Taylor. What they refuse to internalize is that Otis Campbell now has an Uzi and blames them for his drunkenness.

Romanticism is bunk, reality means addressing things as they are.

It's pleasant for nobody.

Whether or not a bad guy has a gun or not, he can lose his life if he puts up a fight to a cop. Cops are trained not to take a beating and they are also trained to make a fast kill shot if they are in a situation to use the gun. Not take out a leg, but kill, stop the bad guy for sure, not put him down still able to fight, but make sure the fight is over for him completely, and fast. It is how they are trained, drilled into them to make that shot count without farting around. Sounds bad, but that is what cops go through in training. And a cops training is never done. They have in service training every year ( manditory ) to keep them in check. Unless not all states are the same.

Not only guns, but cops have other worries with being in a fight with the bad guys too. Like when they get scratched up together swapping blood and then after the bad guy is in cuffs it is learned that he has HIV or AIDS. A brother of mine had to be tested for 6 months after getting blood on him ( the guy had AIDS ) and I remember the worry he had on his mind during those 6 months.

Must be great to be a liberal, and have the luxury of being a Monday morning quarterback...

Says the man whose party nominated John McCain for President.:rolleyes:

...and then Mittens. :cool:

I'm slightly left of center (liberal?).

The math should still be the same less you're NOT dealing in reality. :cool:

...says the man whose party is running away from their Prez on the campaign trail...

I'm not a Democrat. I changed from Republican to Independent about 10 years ago. I look at most Democratic politicians with disgust. However, I look at most Republicans with revulsion.

Indeed, because corporate assets are more important than the life of a lowly citizen...

We had to destroy the citizen to save them.

I remember watching the story when this first happened, I got the impression that there was one trigger happy copper then it was monkey see monkey do. And then it was trying to justify opening fire knowing the innocent citizen would be killed because they could not cover this up. I haven't seen anything that would lead me to think otherwise. I hope the wrongful death suit they filed cleans Stockton's clock. :)


Carl

I also think not being killed is why the gang bangers released the two bank employees and kept the customer hostage.

So what the police do is treat everyone like Otis. Justifying their rude and bullying behavior, their swat team terrorist tactics, and the murder of innocents by whining "we were skeered for our lives" :confused:

They don't give a shit for the innocent people they themselves terrorize and kill, the dead children, the scarred psyches.

Try to imagine what that feels like to a non-cop.

I think there's something to that. The bigger the mass of cops, the more likely there's going to be one who decides to open fire. Then they all do.

The City of Stockton is broke and filed for Chapter 9 in 2012.

Goo, that means her family can settle by being awarded city hall and All the fire stations. The city can rent them.

I have.

1. Act like a decent human?
2. Nobody gets hurt.

Or...

1. Act The Fool?
2. Get shot.

Either way, the impetus is on the behavior of the public,

We lost that citizen to save others.

1. Sucks.
2. That's the job.

I guess I need to review this other than local news when it happened. As I recall the only shooting by the robbers was at the police. If the police backed off and let the robbers go with the hostage she would be alive today. It is not like with all those police and all the Highway Patrol helicopters the robbers could go hide in Mexico for a while or something like that. Just drop those strips that flatten tires when they would be on I-5 or?
Maybe they will wait on a lawsuit considering the bankruptcy status, again been just following casually.

Carl

Carl, the bad guys might have been shooting at law enforcement, but their bullets were hitting homes and businesses where innocent people were.