Ohio Shitbucket Outrage
 

This story out of a northern Ohio town is getting big reaction.

http://www.cleveland.com/bay-village...f_calls_1.html

Basically, it's a case of harrassment/abuse toward a special-needs student. An autistic kid is tricked into dumping what he thinks is one of the 'icewater for charity' buckets on his head. Contents were not ice water.

The perps, when identified, should do 90 days or so in the county jail. Then, to get probation, there should be a little event at the school auditorium, with the student body watching as, one by one, they dump buckets on their own heads.

But not of human waste, as some have suggested. That would be cruel and dangerous to their health. I'm thinking bean soup. The public humiliation is the main idea.

I think public humiliation can be a great tool of justice. We should use it more.

Disgusting little Maggots.:mad:

My thinking is of moderate public humiliation, I hasten to add. Not painful, not tortuous, not leaving marks.

Another example--heard of case of kid bouncing air rifle pellets 'near' pedestrians going by. Never hit anyone. Went to jail. I'd have gone for less jail, and a little ceremony in the street there, where he got to hacksaw his air rifle in half....

Justice done, and seen to be done.

I don't see how making the perpetrators dump something on their own heads would be very productive.

Maybe some volunteer work with those less fortunate than themselves.

When I was a kid, I had a good friend who was autistic. The other kids in the 'hood liked to pick on him, get him upset. Until someone started bloodying their noses for it.:rolleyes: That kind of sucked the fun right out of it for the bullies.:p

My thinking is of them being buried up to their chins in a septic tank with a bucket of maggots dropped on their heads.

Or, maybe we could give them each a hundred paper cuts and toss them in a pond full of piranha? If they're quick, they can escape with their lives.

Dave

I think a track record of cruelty to someone 'less fortunate than themselves' disqualifies them for the 'work in a hospital or nursing home' idea.

The idea behind the 'bucket of soup' is to engender empathy by putting them in their victim's place, while letting them experience the community's disapproval is a tangible way.

I haven't been able to think of anything bad enough for these little shits, but you've come the closest so far.

This reaction is, of course, why a thing like this is called an 'outrage.'

What better way to teach bullies not to be bullies than to bully them. 😏

Well said. As usual, Barbara goes to the heart of it.

I think it was Sam Clemens (or Lazarus Long) who opined that male children should be raised in a barrel and fed through the bunghole. Once they reached maturity the decision would be made whether to let the little savages out or hammer the bung in. :rolleyes:

Our intuitions differ on this clearly.

I wonder if there's any data to be had on 'better ways to teach bullies not to be bullies?'

That's Heinlein. And it reflects the instinctive male attitude towards the up-and-coming challengers. I've come to think Heinlein's main appeal was his ability to punch instinctive buttons.

It's a well known fact that the best way to deal with a bully is to stand up to them and give them a taste of their own medicine. Since the autistic kid can't do that for himself, then someone else needs to do the job for him.

Cincy native Drew Cary offers $10k reward for the little bastids.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...907-story.html

Good for him.

I hope they catch them quick, but not too quick.

The thought of them spending a couple of days cowering in fear and shitting in their underwear waiting for the cops to come for them brings joy to my heart.

This is one case where I would be willing to look the other way if they got roughed up a little "resisting arrest".

Volunteer work? I doubt that will do anything since the entitlement for the behavior and the excuse making for it and any other sort of miscreant activity, particularly around school activities or bullying and other school misbehavior is on the hands of the parents.

We have a case out here in DuPage County, IL, where a bunch of football jocks got caught out having a beer/booze/weed and other substances party in the house of one of them while the parental units were away in Tahoe or St. Barths, or some other upscale enclave. So the cops show up, the kids get busted...and per the behavior agreement all jocks sign as participants in varsity sports at that school...they were all suspended from any school sponsored athletic activity for a year.

And what happens? Dozens of parents show up at the school board meeting where the consequences were announced, ragging at administrators about the "excessive punishment" for little Charlie who's a good boy and should be excused.

Wanna dump a bucket of watery shit on somebody's head as a consequence? I'm all for dumping it on mom and dad.

Don't forget the parents' parents. Uncles should also be considered for the dousing.

The good old poisonous pedagogy in action, eh?

I agree DQ, a public humiliation is a good idea IMO.

Pete

I'd like to put them in the ring one at a time with this little girl boxing champ and let her beat the living shit out of them in front of all their friends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqnCkU7Okos

Interventions should be structured based on the developmental experience of the bully. Some bully because they were and/or continue to be, victimized by a physically abusive parent. Some bully who's developmental experience was one of neglect. Some, who's experience was one of permissiveness (which is another form of neglect). There are interventions.

It's hard to say what will work until something is actually worked on. Some little punks respond to positive reinforcement, attention, and affection. Some respond to, "...listen, this is what's gonna happen, and if it continues this will happen and then this and this and this." You follow through with increasingly severe consequences along with explanations. Sometimes the kid realizes that there's no way out of it outside of ending the behavior. Sometimes the consequences get serious, law enforcement envolvement, juvi time, or worse.


Problem is, the longer the intervention is put off, the more intractable the condition. Narcisssitic personality and anti-social personality, are just two adult conditions that emerge when there's no intervention as a kid.

There's this one thing though...it's called "reactive attachement disorder". A kid shows signs of this and you can pretty much forget about it. Something happened to them in their development, perhaps maybe even in utero, that causes them to have no remorse, no conscience, absolutely no concern for the experience of anybody else, and no emotional connection to anybody. Violent, vicious, and dangerous. Menaces to society. Some clinicians think it's treatable. It may be, but the positive outcomes are rare. "Experts" insist they know what to do, but IMO it's just blind dumb luck if there's a good outcome.

BTW - the Republican candidate for President last time was one of these what with his gay bashing bully history in prep school.

Good info. That 'reactive attachment disorder' sounds like what I know of as the sociopath/psychopath continuum. As i understand it, sociopaths are like lots of people: they define an in-group, and have no regard for people outside it, but with sociopaths it's a very small in-group--the guys in my neighborhood gang, for example.

For psychopaths, now, there's no in-group at all.

But outside these hopeless cases, I'm interested in what form the 'interventions' you mention may take.

Pretty much what I stated in the post without going into treatment planning detail that's gonna put everybody to sleep.

If you get a kid in session and the kid responds to positive reinforcement, and efforts to join him and understand him...and you see movement in the behaviors, then it's working.

If a kid won't cooperate, is sullen, pissy or hostile just being forced to be in treatment...then it's consequence based interventions. Do inappropriate stuff, you get something you really don't want. Up the ante with more hostile/destructive behavior...the consequences fit that behavior. Start punchiing holes in walls, kicking doors off hinges, slam-dunking the 46" flat screen TV (I worked with a family who's kid pulled that one)...and you bring in the youth officer to put the fear of the law in him..drag the kid to the station for a few hours of grief and the officer does what they called a "station adjustment" out here in Wheaon, IL, and sends the kid home. That doesn't work...the next time, the kid gets charged with criminal damage to property or if he goes after another kid or family member...charged with assault. At some point, a fairly normally emotionally and intellectually organized kid who just got off-track will realize he can't win at this game and will often settle down. And while you're doing all of this consequences intervening, you keep on with the attempts at connection and positive reinforcement for better behavior, to which, at the beginning, you will often get a "go fuck yourself", or some similar little quip.

If that doesn't work...you're stuck with a kid who may ride you all the way down to wherever his bottom is. That may be juvi...it may be worse. My experience is that if the parents are reasonable and use the interventions appropriately it won't get that bad. If it does anyway there's something really wrong with the kid and more intensive interventions, hospitalization, inpatient emotional containment and control programs, medication interventions, may be required.

If the parents can't do it because they're impaired...that's a problem, and a lot of times that's the problem. Then you sit the kid down and reasonably let him/her know (in appropriate counselor talk language) that you're aware that his parents are fucked-up and that it's not his fault. (Kinda like that scene in "Good Will Hunting".) Surprisingly, hearing that from somebody in a position of authority often makes a big difference. Gotta be careful with it though...as some kids will go back to mom and dad and say "Ike says you're fucked up, so take a fucking hike." Ya gotta be really careful.

That's the short answer and plenty long enough.

thanks.

Sounds like my bucket ceremony would fit into the program only with kids of demonstrated recalcitrance who were in the 'escalating-consequence' sequence already.

A lot of times these kids are the kids who take the "acting out kid" role in an alcoholic (or other dysfunctional) family system. They're the kids who are at the opposite end of the behavioral continuum from the "family hero kid" the sibling who's dealing with this screwed up system by trying to be the best kid they can be. So the acting out kid looks at the perfect kid and says, "If you think being a suck-up brainiac is going to make this family any better, you're fucking nuts. Watch this."

So true. A good right hook to the jaw is a much better technique. There's a difference between being a bully and defending oneself from a bully. I will inform my son like my father informed me that he will never be in trouble at home for defending himself from some shitbag bully.

Unfortunate in this case the kid being bullied cannot defend himself. What these kids did was sick. Hours and hours of community service is deserving here. Let them pick up trash for a few weeks on the sides of roads.

OK great...community service, boring but productive community service. And the parents who created these miscreants? They just go on creating, I guess?

I say charge them with assault, when found guilty, a month in juvi followed by community service, and a heavy enough fine that the parents will have to figure out a way to pay it. Of course the parents will probably turn around and bully their kids for it, which is the likely cause for this whole thing happening in the first place...but you do what you can do.

Five suspects, age 14 to 17, have now been identified. County prosecutor will review evidence and determine whether delinquency charges should be filed.

No word on whether anyone qualifies for the Drew Carey reward, but police say they were 'well on the way' to identifying suspects when reward was offered.

Meanwhile, the high school indicates the incident is out of their jurisdiction, since it happened off school property before school started.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/p...prank-25406380

I had two guys at grade school who loved to pick on me. I eventually smartened up and realized that fighting fair is stupid. So I fought dirty using every trick I had ever heard of. They stopped picking on me, thought one of them would be a soprano for lfe but he got over it.:rolleyes:

The biggest impediment to winning a fight is the ridiculous notion that you have to fight fair.

If you have to fight, you've already failed to find a more effective solution.

You need to have a meeting with your fellow officers about finding more effective solutions in lieu of shooting unarmed civilians and manhandling four foot ten inch girls.

1. One was a fight initiated by someone who just committed armed robbery and was effectively terminated by appropriate police action.

2. The other precluded a fight by making everyone safer in an instance of non-compliance within a school.

GET AN EFFECTIVE ARGUMENT. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Zeke;242292]1. One was a fight initiated by someone who just committed armed robbery and was effectively terminated by appropriate police action.

It was effectively terminated by a coup de grace bullet through the top of the braincase. It is funny how police speak eliminates the need for effective communication understood by all.

The appropriate police action is going to end with appropriate jail time served by the police officer.

I wasn't aware the -- appropriately -- deceased armed robber ever attended a Police Academy or was sworn in by any Agency?

So are you suggesting that I should have patiently pointed out to those two guys that what they were doing was unfair? I am certain that they would have quickly responded to reason -not.

Now you're calling Michael Brown an armed robber?

AVOID UNTRUTHS IN YOUR ARGUMENT. :rolleyes:

Legally, a size/force discrepancy of that shown absolutely qualifies as his own personage counting as being armed.

It's the same argument allowing escalation to deadly force when attacked by him.

Know what the fuck you're talking about or don't speak, please.