What you talkin "bout???????
 

Well this is getting scary as Obama raises the BS flag once more yesterday completely out of touch with HIS own reality. On ABC he commented (as I paraphrase) "We were just so busy that we didnt take time to talk to the people" in an effort to explain why Healthcare didnt fly with the public majority and Browns win. Ok stay with me for a minute longer.
This is from Barack Obama the man who was everwhere and seemed to be always on our TV's talking about issue after issue, here is the tally.

411 Speeches, commments or remarks (52 on Healthcare)
158 interviews (90 tv, 11 radio)
42 press availabilities/confrences
23 Town Hall meetings

And he didnt talk to the folks? There are stalkers who are less active:D

They didn't sell what's in the bill. At least not as well as the Republicans sold lies about what's in the bill. They're *still* calling it a "Government takeover of Health Care". I heard McCain and Boehner say it yesterday. How can you call it that?

There are polls (wish I had a minute to look them up- maybe later) where they ask people if they are in favor of the bill. Then they ask if they're in favor of specific elements that are in the bill. They get that 60% against the bill number, but on the points that are actually in the bill, most people are in favor of it. People who are against it more often than not do not understand what's in it.

So, it really was a failure of the Democrats to sell reality as well as Republicans sold lies.

Perhaps but thats the nature of Politics, for example everyone sees their own Congressman or Senator as personally favorable but as a whole their numbers are really bad.
I think the biggest part of its failure was the back room deals and bribes.

Today on CNN he blamed the american people for the collapse of healthcare
reform because they didnt know what was in the bill. He went on to assure us
that he knew better of our needs than we do and he would create more jobs
for us by more regulations on the banks and corporations with his rules.
Yeah thats going to work out well. Make it easier on me and I might hire
someone and turn a profit, until then good fkg luck.

Back room deal. Bribes. Yeah. Or maybe the outright lies.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/...-iraq-war.html

Okay, that article explains it pretty well. If you care to actually understand.

Healthcare reform is not a war. Its something that will personally touch each and every american to their core. Closing the doors, writing 2000 page bills that no one understands, and not listening to what people wants is what is killing it.

Blame the pubs all you want but this one falls back in his lap for poor planing and ZERO communication.

I appreciate your sentiment, but I don't really think that's what happened. As I explained, I believe if "the people" know what was actually in the bill they would say "oh, that's what I want".

But we can keep saying how the Democrats for some reason that no one can explain intentionally built some bill that benefits no one, including themselves, just to fuck with us if that makes everyone feel better.

Agreed that their communication left a lot to be desired. But my guess is they were more cautious than they should have been because they *thought* they had a bullet proof majority and they knew the Republicans were, by their own admission, trying to kill the effort for political gain regardless of the harm it would do to the American people.

As I've said, it's unfortunate that the Republicans sold lies so much better than the Democrats sold their bill.

But your bitching that the people dont actually know whats in the Bill while we are telling you they hid behind closed doors so the public couldnt see the sausage. doesnt your arguement strike you as odd?
I and others point to the backroom closed door deals that pissed people off and you say "no no its cause folks dont know whats in the Bill" DUUUUUH???

I dont think they ever really intended on passing it anyway. They just use
an unpassed healthcare bill as ammunition against republicans come election
time. Hillary has been a shark at playing that card.

I know you're telling me that they "hid behind closed doors" but that's kind of bull shit. Google it. You'll find the bill and exactly what's in it. You can also find article after article explaining it in brief. The "closed door" crap would be one of those... wait for it... lies!

And Obama played it today.

As I said, if you care to actually understand. But you clearly do not.

http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf

Not exactly buried under Fort Knox.

I read it and understand its from a Left point of view but bottom line is the Left failed now suck it up and repackage the Bill get some promised transparency and when your ready bring it back and see what happens.

To find this I had to type "what is in the health care bill?" into google.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BK0KA20091221

How much more transparent can you be- the entire text of the bill.

http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf

What are they hiding?

The fact is people who are bitching about not knowing what is in the bill are too lazy to spend 30 minutes finding out. Those same people are more influenced by a commercial in Jerry Springer full of lies. Then they repeat those lies. People who have actually taken time to see what the bill does say 'what the hell are you talking about'. Apparently everyone else says 'wow, really?'

Ok so the Bill is transparent right there to read and yet folks SHOT IT DOWN, maybe folks knew too much to pass this????
Bottom line is its done, dead and will need to be retooled if there is any chance.

I'll try one more time. If you read the article I posted on the other page- the one with all the facts and numbers- you'll find that people who "shot it down" did not understand what was in the bill *despite* the fact that it was quite easy to find.

I've laid it out pretty well, provided links and all the information you could ask for. If you don't get it you are not capable of getting it. As I said above, you do not care to actually understand. You would rather be manipulated by right wing rhetoric.

I will fully admit that the Democrats should have done a better job making their case. Unfortunately, the million dollars a day the health insurance industry spent advertising lies on television had more impact on you and many others than what was actually in the bill.

Again, if you want a well thought out explanation of what actually happened, backed up by figures and polling data, read the article I posted.

Here is the link again if you missed it:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/...-iraq-war.html

In short, it shows that when people are asked if they are in favor of the actual content of the bill they say that indeed they are. When asked what is in the bill they do not actually know even though, as you say, there it is, right there to read.

Lies won. Truth lost.

BUT ITS DEAD so my point is quit bitching about it, the Left can if they choose repackage and present another Bill, this Bill or a hybrid of new and old, learn from its mistakes and move on.

If they were so "backroom and closed door" how do you know about them?

Frankly, if the administration had been a little better about concealing the process and revealing the product they wouldn't be in the pickle they're in.

As has been said, in poll after poll when you ask people about the specific things they want to see in a health care bill they favor what's in the actual bill. Trouble is they don't know that so they oppose the bill.

John

No the American voter won, Democracy won, we all won as long as we hold Elections, officials and Policy accountable. There was no lies just different point of view.

That remains to be seen.

It doesn't want to go in the cart. ;)

John

THE BILL IS DEAD................'nuff said

On page one your point was "back room deals and bribes". Now you have some other point. Pick a point. Or don't. I don't care. But when I explain in detail and with references why "your point" is flat wrong and based on poor information, don't just come up with another point.

You said they hid the process and weren't transparent enough. That was your point. Then you said, okay, it was transparent but rejected. That was your point. You have had more points, all at odds with each other, in this one thread than the entire health care bill that you *think* you oppose but haven't bothered to investigate beyond what you heard on Beck.

Is *that* your point now? The bill is dead and you're too stupid to understand how tragic that is?

Good point.

In the sense that the position you hold seems to be about to win I agree but because your position is antagonistic to your own well being....... you're losing.

John

You are wrong. Death Panels. Not in the bill. Government control of health care. Not in the bill. Deficit expansion. Not in the bill. Government between you and your doctor. Not in the bill. Increased costs. Not in the bill. Rationing of health care. Not in the bill. etc. etc. etc.

I will sing it this time....Ehhhemmm
(((((((((((((((((STiiiiiIIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiLLLL DeeeEEEEEEaaaaaAAAAAAd))))))))))))))))

I hadn't thought about it that way. Quite a compelling argument. Actually, all you're saying there is the one thing we can agree on. It's likely dead. You don't have a lot of depth to your convictions, do you? Just kinda want to win, even if it's at the expense of what is best for America.

Congratulations! You won!

We all lose!

Or let me put it in a way you may understand:

Oooooobbbbbbaaaaaaammmmmmaaaa issssss stttiiilllll PPPPrrrreessssiiideeennnttt!!!!!

Oh, zing! Gotcha back! Ha ha!

That more on your level? Not so many pesky facts.

084M4 i2 57ilL PR35iD3N7!

08@|V|@ 1$ $+111 |*23$1|>3|\|+!

Word! He still be in the hizzle, dog!

John

No problem. Nice talking to you.

Sadly you are correct

If they were so sure of what people wanted why did they put all their eggs in the super majority basket ? THats not thinking with their heads.

Sorry but I disagree with you on your what if scenario. Which people are you referring to ? Those that are on welfare or those who fund it ?

Bring both of these parties together and this world will be a much better place.

Early in this process Republicans decided that this would be Obama's waterloo. Takes two to tango. I said it a million times- there is no Health Care Reform proposal that the Republicans would agree with. They're not at all concerned about fixing the problems, only with gaining power. Perhaps now they will get on board with something so they can say they had a voice in it and the Democrats fucked everything up. But that too will be only for political gain and will have nothing to do with helping Americans.

They lied. They just lied. They sold the lies well. They spent a ton of money, got in bed with the Insurance companies and spent a million dollars a day selling lies. They did it because they didn't like the idea that someone else was running the country for a while. The shitter is that it worked. So they'll go on lying. It's a plan that has worked well for them time and again. They lied about Iraq. They lied about tax cuts. They lied about deregulation. They lied about health care. They lie.

How do you bring both parties together when one has said on the record that they will kill this just to make Obama look bad? And how does anyone who calls them self an American vote for a party who has made this claim? And finally, how then does one say they should work together!? I voted for the people who said they wanted only to make the President look bad and the President is to blame for not working with them!!!! Incredible logic!

In case anyone forgot:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...he-troops.html

Working for America! Wake up people. They're screwing you.

As a member of the Rightwing liars who killed Healthcare reform and is hell bent on killing many Obama policy mistakes....................your welcome:D