Malaysia Airlines Passenger Jet Shot Down over Ukraine
 

Sadly, this sounds like collateral damage in the Russia - Ukraine conflict.

Interesting take from the Ukraine military:

A statement from the Foreign Ministry in Kiev said the plane had been "shot down."

"According to the General Staff of Ukrainian Armed Forces, the airplane was shot down by the Russian Buk missile system as the liner was flying at an altitude of 10,000 meters [33,000 feet]," the statement added. "Ukraine has no long-range air defense missile systems in this area. The plane was shot down, because the Russian air defense systems was affording protection to Russian mercenaries and terrorists in this area. Ukraine will present the evidence of Russian military involvement into the Boeing crash."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=24599558

If its true that the Ukraine military has no ground to air assets in the area - an assertion that might be tricky to confirm - than that leaves the Russians. Also interesting are reports that the black box has been found and is on its way to ... Moscow?!

Lets say I am a cynical old man. :D

Apparently, Ukrainian Security Services intercepted a call between the separatists and their Russian minders admitting they (seemingly accidentally) shot the plane down.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...pt-356545.html

Accident or not, the Russian backed Ukrainian rebels just murdered 295 innocent people and now these same Cossacks have collected the black boxes and they're sending them to Moscow. Major f**k up and it's Vlad's fault.

From the Ukrainian security services.

I heard that one of these rebel officials tweeted a claim that they had shot down a Ukrainian cargo plane at the time the Malaysian plane went down, tweet now deleted

That is credible to me. An inexperienced crew might have targeted the aircraft without have the system in a safe mode, and fired inadvertently.

I suppose you're hanging on Vlad's every word.:rolleyes: Hopefully, the Russians won't try to cover it up like they did when they shot down the Korean Airlines jet. That ended up blowing up in their faces. The Russia - Ukraine border is under enough western surveillance that a Russian coverup will again prove highly embarrassing.

Whoever did it will come out, guaranteed. Any denials will just add to the embarrassment for what likely was an accidental shoot-down of what the rebels thought was a Ukrainian transport plane.

Fixed that for ya.;)

Vlad blames Poroshenko's government.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...d-226d29f08597

“This tragedy would not have happened if there was peace in this land, they would not have been renewed war-like actions in the southeast of Ukraine.”

With such a statement, he's as much as admitting that his boys did it, but trying to shift the blame to the Ukrainians. If the Ukrainians had done it, he would have gotten all indignant, fiery, chauvinistic and weird.

I am not hanging on anybody word; I am pointing out the source.

I knew the source. I posted it.:confused:

No harm highlighting it.

So, are you disputing it?

It'll be interesting to see how Putin handles this. I checked out Pravda and Russia Today online. Of course, they both say that Ukrainians shot the plane down. They'll be backtracking soon enough, I bet.

Putin's had a bad couple of days. Obama slaps him with heavy economic sanctions for bringing "heavy weapons" into Ukraine and today his heavy weapons shoot down a civilian airliner and kill hundreds. The news about the airliner broke while he was on the phone with Obama complaining about the unjust sanctions. We'll see if the Europeans get off the dime, now that nearly 154 Dutch citizens were killed.

Time to drag some murderous Cossack's sorry asses in front of the World Court at The Hague. :mad: 154 happy Dutch vacationers shot out of the sky at 33,000 feet makes me sick to my stomach. No excuse is good enough. :mad:

The Russian people have failed to preserve their democracy by allowing Putin to stay in power. He has facilitated both a civil war in Ukraine and the economic degradation of his developing nation. His macho leadership has resulted in big fucking mess that benefits no one.


I mean what other idiot would throw away the good points he earned in both bringing about the agreement to get the chemicals out of Syria and holding a successful Olympics (on which he spent $60 billion) in a matter of about a week. All for a new Soviet Union?
I guess modern Russia must really suck if they are nostalgic about the USSR.

What democracy? The democracy controlled by Soros?

I'd trust George Soros over Putin any day on anything.

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+1. Next thing you know the right will be screeching that it's all Obamas's fault. :rolleyes:

A bunch of the dead were AIDS researchers heading to a conference in Melbourne.

I read that too. Just a visceral response on my part to seeing a tour guide to Bali in the wreckage. No disrespect intended toward the rest of the victims. :(

Well one thing is certain...The Russian Federation has the infrastructure for democracy....they have elections and a Duma. If it is not a democracy de facto they still have the apparatus to create one by instituting reforms and checks and balances. The longer he remains in power the less chance this has of happening but I think it is possible.

He is in power this long because Soros and his gang even after they were
kicked out still tried very hard to undermine and control the system.

I listen to one of the talking heads last night saying Putin in trouble at home with the ultra right. Seems he not taking strong enough action, want to invade and take the portions of Ukraine they want.

We need to have a steady hand on the tiller, one who needs no reminder of the occurrences of only hundred years ago. On how fast events can spin out of control!





Barney

Putin loves to throw his weight around but this time 300 innocents were killed so we need some strong response from the Europeans.


I wonder why we cannot remove them as one of the permanent Security Council members...that would be a wake up call. Most likely that is impossible to do.

To me, that's just trading one rich, egotistical, domineering asshole for another.

A huge laugh!

No, that would be the Koch gold dust twins here vs Putin there.

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Doesn't it bother you that Putin has been in power for over a decade now and appears to be fixing elections? Not to mention his "stint" as Prime Minister under Mededyev. I guess he did not want to appear too obvious like the old Kremlin leaders like Stalin and Breshnev. And who ever replaces him someday will do the same thing, and could be worse than Putin.

That man (I use the word loosely) is evil personified, no way is there going to be someone worse.

I yield to extenuating circumstances.

The oligarch Boris Berezovsky and his clique which became very powerful under the drunkard Yeltsin, brought the low level KGB colonel to succeed Yeltsin, but as a puppet.

Surprise, surprise Putin did not play their game. He instituted reforms, notably taxation. The oligarchs were jolted now that they had to pay reasonable taxes, that their political clout was reduced and the free wheeling disorganized system was over.

A lot of them resisted but then had to flee...Berezovsky. Abramovich, Gusinsky etc.

This inflamed papa George Soros, who tried all types of tricks -NGOs, funny demonstrations etc. Only a man of Putin capability could survive, could rebalance the state and save it from looters with foreign tentacles.

Spin up some 'Pussy Riot' and have a martini Don.:rolleyes: :D

Many in the west who disparage Putin would be supporting him if they were Russians.

If chickens had lips, they wouldn't have to eat with their peckers.:p

Like expat Germans in the USA did in the 1930s no doubt.

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Ronnie's Kids?

Where's the OP? We need to hear how it's all Obie's fault :rolleyes:.

C'mon Mike, you know you want to say it.:rolleyes:

Well it is, isn't it? Let me think on this. Nope, it's George the Lessor's fault. Wait, it's really Clinton's responsibility. Thinking some more - Bush the Elder? Come to think of it, it's the seductive Ronald Regan's fault. Fuck it all, let's blame Truman.