"Does America have the political maturity for single-payer healthcare?"
 

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-singlepayer-healthcare-20140703-column.html#page=1

Michael Hiltzick from The LA Times points up a disturbing aspect of the recent HL decision by the Supremes in this well written imo article.


"Consider the birth control methods at the heart of the Hobby Lobby case. The ACA mandates 20 contraceptive methods for coverage; Hobby Lobby's owners objected to four of these because they were what the business owners called "abortifacients" -- drugs or devices that promote abortion.
But medical science says that's erroneous: The four methods aren't abortifacients. But the business owners were able to sell their scientifically ignorant assertion to a science-challenged Supreme Court majority."

Sadly, my answer is "no". America is anything but "mature" much less responsible.

Dave

Nope. The fact that the majority of Americans are happy as pigs in shit with their fucked up employer sponsored insurance industry ripoff coverage is the only proof one needs.

PS - And the country obviously doesn't have the maturity to manage a 2nd Amendment either.

PSS - I pointed out several days ago that a copper wire IUD is not, by the definition of "abortion" that Hobby Lobby used in it's case, is not an abortifacient that Hobby Lobby says is the basis for it's "morally unacceptable" contraceptive argument. Not a peep outta one of the harebrained lunatic fringe cons on this forum to challenge it.

When did management at Hobby Lobby become experts on the human reproductive system? Or their friggin' church for that matter? Come to think of it; What in the hell does Antonin Scalia know about the human reproductive system? He thinks because he's a dick that means he knows the reproductive organs?:confused:

Dave

The reason the 'Baggers and their ilk dislike Obamacare is their fear that someone (other than themselves, of course) will get something they don't deserve.

I hear you. I hear them say it all the time. They have to pay for pregnancies, all such bs.

I am as left as one can be and I don't like the ACA because it was written for and by the insurance companies. The insurance companies are making out like bandits.

However, I do not want it going away. We need it as a starting point. Some of the provisions in it. We can't go back but we can go forward and eventually have single payor universal health coverage like we should have had from the beginning if it were not for those right wing scum.

This has been pretty much my exact position on the ACA as well.

As far as their convenient objections to "paying for" contraceptives and abortions it's utter bullshit. Because if you've had your employer sponsored health care insurance you've been paying for covered contraceptives and legal covered abortions all along. Your premium dollars go into the pot that pays for everything that's covered. And your tax dollars pay for the same coverage as well, in the form of the hundreds of millions of dollars in tax breaks and other corporate welfare gobbled up by the health insurance industry.:rolleyes:

Having in my first marriage been faced with the problem of getting her pregnant and not avoiding it I submit that I know more about the human reproductive system than the Farting Five all put together. Scalia is an idiot.

Oh shit now we have some bible thumper FM station operating on the same frequency as WBJC and they have not reduced their transmitter power as they should for daylight operation. What is it with these stupid people do they believe they can flout all the rules?

They spent a fortune on lobbying and that should be outlawed because despite what some version of SCOTUS said the First does not cover lobbying. Unfortunately being conversant with the English language is not a requirement to be a SC Justice.

If a person incorporates basically to gain personal plausible deniability, why does this not work for them for 2nd or 3rd party provided health insurance for others under their employment? Someone elsewhere already sussed this, politics masquerading as selective outrage.





Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Yep.

http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/z...77716380_n.jpg

If legalese was plain English, attorneys wouldn't take up a third of the yellow pages.

"... the right of the people to peaceably assemble and to petition the Government for the redress of grievances."

Now I think that we can take the words "the people" in this context to mean citizens of these United States. The words 'redress of grievances" speak to a post facto function, i.e., you cannot seek redress unless something has already been done that you find grievous.

However lobbyists today seek to change legislation before it is even enacted and if that were not bad enough they also represent foreign governments, hardly "the people". So I submit that as currently practiced lobbying cannot be defended by pointing at the First Amendment.:rolleyes:

Nothing terribly difficult to understand there, if this high school dropout can understand it how come those Harvard trained Justices cannot?

One way ACA has a chance to expand is if small businesses could give the option for their employees to shop for insurance on their own and then reimburse them for it. But unfortunately this will be taxed. Same applies to the self employed people, their insurance payments are taxed. Herein lies the greatest disadvantage between employer provided insurance by large corporations (they get favorable rates) and the small businesses and self employed.

I guess I need to address this one point separately. As much as the cons are behaving despicably regarding the ACA...this Hobby Lobby case has nothing to do with religion since there is not consistency related to the "abortifacient" status of most, if not all, of the contraceptive meds and devices in the case...I can't blame all the opposition to single payer on right wing scum.

There's plenty of left wing scum that want nothing to do with single payer. They have their employer supported health insurance, it's fine with them, they don't like change any more than anybody else, and would prefer that sick people and poor people continue to go without coverage and that 40,000 of them die every year due to it. If every alleged Democrat and liberal got behind single payer, it would have a fighting chance...but they won't, so it's dead as far as I can see.

If they are against single payer, they are not left wing.

Well maybe you and I have a different definition of left-winger.

A lot of people in this country do.

For example Obama is considered a so************************t by many in this country.

That's laughable.

The Dude is Center-right.

There needs to be a narrative change in this country, because much of what is considered left and liberal here, ain't liberal at all.

If and when a single payer system is up and running. There will be many many jobs not needed any more. Cost savings to patients but a political nightmare. Redundant positions not needed from the providers of service not needing as many paper shufflers, billing companies then insurance companies.


Because if cutting cost then single payer would go a long way to that end. Just by the simple fact of simplification of the system.


My guess this fact was considered by the President and knew it was going to be a hard fight anyway so fight that battle later by someone else.




Barney

I wonder is there really duplication of clerical work? The present insurance companies do not cover all Americans so single payer should generate more input and considering claims is not a computer function.

Guess that will all depend on who is in office when (if) the economy gets better.

The economy has been poised to "get better" since 2009. (In fact, for a handful of Americans, it has.) But, it won't get much better for the rest of us until he's gone and maybe not even then.

Because what some movers-n-shakers in the world of business see as "good", is only good for them and at our expense. So, when they don't get their way, they make life hard for us. And when they do get their way, life will get harder for us anyways.

Until we roll out the guillotines. Then, they might finally see the virtue in generosity.:rolleyes:

Dave

Hopefully their eyelids will be glued open when the blade drops.

No argument. But lemme say this then...there are enough people who identify themselves as Democrats and who voted for Obama who want nothing to do with single payer that it's dead. We know the cons and Republicans oppose it and will always oppose it...so the real reason why we don't have it and probably won't is due to Democratic voters who oppose it.

Perhaps they can be rehabilitated.

Regards,

D-Ray

One of my absolute favorite movies. Easily in my top five.

I need to watch that again someday soon. I don't think I have seen it in 20 years.

""Enjoying that are you my darlin'? Bit cold and pointless isn't it my lovely? What's happened to yours my little sister? ""

""What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.""

Gotta be one of the best pickup lines ever!


Back on subject now, just yesterday one of my sisters a TP BTW called after finally calling on the ACA. Was pretty mum on how much she would save. Said it was ""cheaper"" but was real upset she has to report their earnings. Felt everyone should get the same insurance no matter how much you earn. :eek: I'm sure she meant just those who work!

From the mouth of a Tea Party Rush FOX junky!

Barney