Why I am a shoshalist
 

I was thinking(dangerous thing to do) about all of the people on this board. I find it fascinating that there is such diversity and dedication by all of the folks to their beliefs. Not because people are nuts and how could so many people be wrong, but rather because people are generally not nuts and believe firmly for their own personal reasons. I am quite certain this comes from their life experiences and observations. With that I thought it might be good for me to share why I am a sshoshalist.

When I was a child, everything in my life was about family. It was how I was raised. No one was better or more deserving than the next. No one got more than the next. Also, no one was ever left out. Everyone was expected to pitch in and be a part of the family. We were an extremely poor family. I can remember adding up the cost of my best Sunday suit, it was generally less than $2.00 and usually bought at garage sales or thrift stores. We were expected as kids to help each other and share everything we had. It was the only way to make ends meet. Hand me downs were a way of life. I started working when I was ten. If I wasn't mowing lawns, I was shoveling walks, If not that then I was pulling weeds or maybe painting a fence. When I was little older I started babysitting. At 12 I got a paper route. And so on. I was taught to look at the money I earned in two ways.

First, if I buy something, is it something I need? This would be clothing or shoes or food. Most of the time the answer was no. I did not NEED a new pair of shoes, I wanted a pair of shoes. I didn't need that cool new pair of jeans I wanted them. I certainly didn't need that bag of chocolate, but I wanted it.

Second, if I only wanted it and didn't need it, could I afford it. If I did buy it, would I be able to have enough to share it. Whenever I bought that bag of candy or whatever it was and did not need it, I was expected to share with my siblings and parents. I was one of 8 kids. My mother and father always said, "Remember, your family is always more important than that candy. Always take care of each other.". When I bought my first car, it was understood that it would be used to transport family members whenever needed, in fact, that I would become one of the "chauffer's" hauling kids around to events as needed. I knew before I bought my car this was the case. I was taught to consider others needs before I used my "resources". This meant everything from my time to my money. I was taught to be conservative as resources were scarce. I was taught that charitable actions were the core to a good person and a strong family. By sharing, we were telling each other we loved each other. We were making the statement that we would always be there for each other.

I am fifty now and all of my siblings are alive as well as my parents. People frequently tell me they have never met a family as close as ours. We are always there for each other. If a water heater goes out in the middle of he night, one or more of us will show up to help. If someone is out of work, they know their family will never be hungry or without clothes or shelter.

I am a pretty strong and independent person today. I do not rely on anyone for resources. I luckily have never had to be on the receiving and of financial means. I guess I learned how hard it was to come up with that money and I would not want to deprive a person of their means. I would gladly give to those who need it though. Here again, the key word is "NEED". This shoshalistic attitude has made me a strong person, and a charitable person. It has also made my family a strong family.

The one key thing here, I was taught to give to those who were in need. I was not taught to give to another person who would then distribute those resources to others. It was my responsibility to give to those in need, not my parents, not my teachers, or my government.

Sorry for the long rambling mess of words. I just wanted to give a little insight on why I believe as I do.

You Are just another Biological Speculation Among Billions,Your Life you have made It is a blueprint of your secret desires and aspirations,all man carves jis way into life some wrecklessly some Frugaly and Inteligent.Our thoughts dictate how we carry ourselves and disply our selves to the public.Man Does have the ability to link to others to make a more Powerful example Usualy with the right Mate or even Freindships.Soshalsm,is probaly the first set of priciples man followed,after chaos.

Well said, Mr. Cricket.

Here's Dave Mathews take on it;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jKh9H9UdoA

Dave

How about;

http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/f...nservative.pdf

Dave

The problem is not everyone gives or they look at needs of others with a skeptical eye.

A reason to take it out of an individuals control to one of a controlled system funded by everyone.


I'm all for the government controlling most of the way society works, with a strong citizen oversight. Not let up to elected officials. Have a nonpartisan commission to enforce the rules.

Just as an example medical care, take the insurance companies out of the loop. Would save money but the only downside I can see is the jobs that are lost. Another is education, make all public schools equal in the services offered. Fund the inner city schools the same as the higher income areas.



Barney

It was a good speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3wmdgnkjSA

That is all very nice but what is wrong if you give to another and they in turn give to it those in need i.e. pay it forward?. And not all of us are as nice as you.

Nothing, in fact that is how it should work. My point, and I failed to make it clear, we were responsible to make it work. We were not supposed to give to another person and hope they would make it work. So giving it to a third party and then saying I did my part was not acceptable. Looking at the people in need and doing everything you can to help was our responsibility, not the government's or the churches' or anyone else's.

The government is the people! I don't trust if left up to people in general to give equally to those who have needs. Will be selective in the conception of needs. Either subconsciously or intended. By what church you go to, ethnicity, race, economic level, education level age ect......



Barney

So are you against the government helping people with our taxes?
I mean we should use everything at our disposal.

And, that is the crux of the biscuit. Of course Republicans will send all of their donations to the wealthiest and most highly advantaged.......because they need our help.:confused: And the disadvantaged are on their own because they need to learn to lift themselves up. After all, they did it to themselves, anyways.........:rolleyes:

Dave

Exactly! I have no problem with my taxes helping others in need. My problem is the giving to our elected officials and contractors unchecked.



Barney

Exactly! Think about how much more you would have in your pocket to use to help others, that you can see with your own eyes need help, rather than send it off to the government where it gets whittled down, then put into programs rife with corruption.

I paid a really good chunk of income taxes go to both state and the Feds last year, plus those on my house. If for some reason I had been able to keep that money for myself the last thing I would have done is donated it to charity. I am being honest. I would have spent it on own family and self.

Not at all. I just don't think the political environment will allow us to be effective in that manner. Too many people are corrupt, too many people hate the idea of helping others when they are struggling themselves(understandably), to many people trying to decide what a need is and how to meet it. I just do not see how, in our current legal system and political environment, a government could possibly fill the gap. If it could I would be all for it. I still am for it. I just do not think I can pay my taxes and then wash my hands of the responsibility of my neighbors welfare.

And I do understand, this would take a cultural shift to accomplish what I think should be. And yes I know I am dreaming and it is likely to never be a viable economic system or political system.

Kudo's to you!!!!!!
Honesty will always get my respect. I do think that if the taxes were less, and the economic system wasn't one powered by greed(I work for me to have more), you would have more and you would help those in need if you saw it.

I gave some homeless looking Dude standing at an intersection where I had stopped a $5 Bill the other day. I'm under no illusions that it helped him any, just allayed my guilt momentarily.

That's basically what most charity giving amounts to.

An excuse to pat yourself on the back.

Like the local church having a bake sale and presenting some family with $186 to help towards their kid's $300,000 medical bills.

Big Fucken Deal.

That's why the government needs to have programs to help the unfortunate.

No I think I would either save the money or spend it on stereos.Or gas.


Do not get me wrong charity is great...but it does not come close to the government saftey net in effectiveness. Our nation has its problems but sort of poo-pooing the ability of our government to solve problems by implying it is corrupt sounds like a bunch of malarkey to me. If Sister Mary is agreeing with you I know I am not in the wrong on this score.

You know, speaking for myself, I guess it does break down to a bit of a lack of self discipline. I am somewhat the same way. In fact, I used to give generously to United Way through payroll deduction, until corruption there came to light. At that, I stopped. I'm thinking that I don't mind giving, but if it's up to me to remember to write a check every week, it isn't happening....

The same goes for my retirement savings. They take it straight out of my check, I never see the money, I never have think of it.....So it gets done and thank goodness for that.:)

Dave

Yes......

It is just human nature you take care of yourself first. Every now and then I will give a dollar or so to someone who asks for it.

I think the OP's heart is in the right place but his definiton of that zozolism does not correspond with my idea of what that term means. I think of the governmental system of England and Germany when I think of zozalism, not some Reagan vison of the self-reliant Marlborough man who is nice to his friends, families and neighbors. Our very good government institutions help us be nice to people we will never meet .

Politicians may be bad, but our actual governnment is made up of decent people who try to make our lives better for the most part.

When someone asks me for money, claiming to be hungry, I offer to buy them food instead of simply handing them cash.

You know the need is genuine when they accept and seem happy with the meal.

Unfortunately, around here, they usually demur.

Dae

If private individuals and charities had been effective in the first place, there would have been no reason to implement gov programs to assist the needy.

From icenine's earlier post;
Politicians may be bad, but our actual governnment is made up of decent people who try to make our lives better for the most part.


Thank you for making that clear.

I do not get the I am hungry excuse out here. Most have signs just saying out of work, etc. They stand by the freeway on ramps in Cali...I live in a sort of strip mall bedroom commuity type of universe. My town does not really have a "downtown". It does but it is sort of a tourist "Old Town" sort of fake "Wild West" boulevard if you know what I mean.
I only occasionally get hit up walking into a store.

Bullseye! :)

Notice my mention of "United Way" a few posts back. Wasn't that supposed to be the private, NGO answer to public assistance?

How'd it work out?

Dave

YW!

My whole experience in education when I was a history major was the general progressive trajectory of American democracy and government.
I really hate it when people tear down our institutions which are the envy of the world when you think about.

How about another family where some members look to suck and leech the kind ones.

A member is down on his luck so you take him in, feed him, find him a job.
He is making good money now, but he refuses to contribute to any bills...food,
electricity etc.

After the arrival of new grocery he is the first to dive into the fridge. :D

Time to show the deadbeat the door Don. You're not doing him or the rest of the family any favors.

We get those, but they also hang out outside convenience stores and fast food joints. Until the business owners call the cops, anyhow. But, still, they try.

We had a group of them that had broken into in a nearby empty and somewhat derelict strip mall and were squatting there. The owner of the property complained to the city and the cops chased them off. Some of them were later caught squatting in an empty house three doors down from me. A neighbor caught them and called the cops. This time they were arrested as drugs were found in their possession.

The thing of it is, they were all young people. I was out walking one night and saw one of the girls. She couldn't have been a day over 15. Truly sad.:(

Dave

What's really sad is she's probably making her living giving blowjobs.

Wouldn't know. Didn't ask.

Dave

I did use the word corrupt. I also said there are issues with who gets to decide what need is met, as well as those who do not think there should be any welfare at all. The point was not to call out our government, but rather to show why the program is not as effective as it should be, or could be. I agree, our safety net is the best in the world. My bigger point, even though it is the best, it is not enough. I am not sure it can get better. I just know that my responsibility does not end with me paying taxes. Thus I am a so************************t.


People before business, albeit a business must make a profit to survive, but the well being of he employee should be as important as any other goal or vision in a company.
I don't really have answers, just objectives and dreams and ideals.

EDIT: BTW I am very much involved with a group of citizens who are 100% reliant on welfare for everything. They are physically, or mentally incapable of earning anything. I see what the short comings are and red tape affect. And yes there is corruption on the part of some of the providers, some of the recipients, and even some of the distributors of the welfare dollars.

It is not the best safety net in the world. And private charity can only do so much.
You have eight brothers and sisters which is great I am glad you guys can help each other out. Some people do not have a family support system. I would rather pay higher taxes and have a better social justice system than rely on private contributions to close the gap.

Most people are like me....if taxes were voluntary they would not pay them, and people who do not want to pay taxes are not going to go out give that money they did not have to pay to the government to needy neighbors in the community. That never would happen on any sort of scale.

So-called "Conservatives" seem to be those that want a great country without having to pay for it. So-called "Libertarians" seem to be those that don't want to pay for anything that might benefit anyone other than themselves personally.
I suppose that might make me a progressive Soshalist by comparison as I think any country or employer worth working for/defending should take care of its own.

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That's exactly the way it should be. Corporations are chartered by the government and they should be subservient to it in order to benefit the citizenry.

Mark, you are a philanthropist, but you are not a soshulist. You didn't discuss at all the control over capital and the means of production. Your ideals are admirable, but they don't come within the textbook understanding of soshulism. (It's hard to speak of a textbook, and then deliberately misspell the word we are discussing; such is the influence of spammers, though.)

Regards,

D-Ray

Darn them to heck!

Pete

There is understandable the resistance to increase welfare, when the average
trying Joe observe the flaunt and corruption first hand.

Indeed true enuff, but the need of the worthy deserving persons should not be canceled by the inevitable gaming of the system by the few unworthy of aid or trust.

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