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-   -   Koch Brothers spending vs the Unions (http://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=7131)

Bigerik 03-23-2014 07:09 AM

Koch Brothers spending vs the Unions
 
http://www.thenation.com/blog/178743...nions-combined

Ike Bana 03-23-2014 07:35 AM

Pretty much expected. That doesn't concern me nearly as much as how spending from their Democrat supporting counterparts has diminished. Soros pretty much sat out the 2012 election (comparatively speaking).

Look...these guys fork over the cash because they hope to get something in return. Legislation and legal enforcement favorable to their business and personal financial interests mostly. Seems to me the political contributions of Koch's and Soros' of the world oughta reflect their belief in what they're going to reap from these expenditures.

Doesn't appear that big Democrat supporters think they're getting much out of Obama lately. I know I don't think I'm getting much out of Obama lately.

Dondilion 03-23-2014 08:16 AM

Soros is spending his money in Europe trying to install pro western governments in former soviet countries.

The unions cannot match Koch because they are in essence subscription
driven organizations.

Obama has fulfilled his job.
That is oppose anti worker/union legislations and if necessary veto them.
Promote worker friendly initiatives and information.

However it is up to the worker to educate himself, to be able to discern
dis and misinformation, to know where his
butter lies so as not to vote against his own interest. :D

merrylander 03-23-2014 09:28 AM

This tri partite government y'all love so much has this one flaw we have witnessed these last few years. It is quite simply that a collection of nay sayers in either the House or Senate can grind everything to a halt and there is not a damn thing that POTUS can do about it. Conversly if he decides to veto anything he can be overidden with enough votes

BlueStreak 03-23-2014 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike Bana (Post 204250)
Doesn't appear that big Democrat supporters think they're getting much out of Obama lately. I know I don't think I'm getting much out of Obama lately.

Same here.

I'm hoping we can at least keep the wolves at bay until 2016. This years midterm should be interesting.

BlueStreak 03-23-2014 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merrylander (Post 204265)
This tri partite government y'all love so much has this one flaw we have witnessed these last few years. It is quite simply that a collection of nay sayers in either the House or Senate can grind everything to a halt and there is not a damn thing that POTUS can do about it. Concersly if he decides to veto anything he can be overidden with enough votes

Really? According to the panicked and paranoid among us, we're living under a Fascist dictatorship.:rolleyes:

Dave

merrylander 03-23-2014 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak (Post 204277)
Really? According to the panicked and paranoid among us, we're living under a Fascist dictatorship.:rolleyes:

Dave

If that were to be true there would be gulags in the badlands of Nort Dakota.

CarlV 03-23-2014 11:25 AM

I still go with this this, They own the tar sands land in Canada. They want to send it to the gulf coast in Texas to refine and export it duty free, and oh by the way, they also own 40% of Valero and it's subsidies.
Dems don't really want to give this tax holiday away and the Goppers do.

Carl



Repost
Quote:


Today's WaPo:

Quote:

You might expect the biggest lease owner in Canada's oil sands, or tar sands, to be one of the international oil giants, like Exxon Mobil or Royal Dutch Shell. But that isn't the case. The biggest lease holder in the northern Alberta oil sands is a subsidiary of Koch Industries, the privately-owned cornerstone of the fortune of conservative Koch brothers Charles and David.

The Koch Industries subsidiary holds leases on 1.1 million acres -- an area nearly the size of Delaware -- in the oil sands region of Alberta, Canada, according to an activist group that studied Alberta provincial records. The Post confirmed the group’s findings with Alberta Energy, the provincial government’s ministry of energy. Separately, industry sources familiar with oil sands leases said Koch’s lease holdings could be closer to two million acres.The company with the next biggest collection of oil sands leases is Conoco Phillips.

What is Koch Industries doing there? The company wouldn't comment on its holdings or strategy, but it appears to be a long-term investment that could produce tens of thousands of barrels of the region's thick brand of crude oil in the next three years and perhaps hundreds of thousands of barrels a few years after that.
Link

More, though older, fun:

Quote:

Let’s step back and review what the refineries actually do. The diluted tar sands bitumen (or “DilBit”) that would flow through Keystone XL is an ultra-acidic, highly viscous mess, that doesn’t at all resemble the refined petroleum products like diesel or gasoline or even jet fuel that are sold on the commercial markets. DilBit is, in the words of Keith Schneider, ”thick as peanut butter and more acidic, highly corrosive, and abrasive” than typical crude.
This tar sands DilBit needs to be refined before it can be sold. But only certain refineries are capable of handling the corrosive DilBit.

Refiners along the Texas Gulf Coast, where the Keystone XL pipeline would ultimately deliver tar sands DilBit from Canada, are eager to accomodate. The company that appears positioned to receive and refine more of TransCanada’s crude than anyone else is the Valero Energy Corporation (NYSE: VLO).

Valero "Dedicated" To Keystone XL - And Ready To Profit From It
Valero is the world’s largest independent refiner, with 15 refineries that have a collective capacity to process 2.9 million barrels per day. While their commitments to TransCanada are confidential, Valero is publicly “dedicated” to the Keystone XL project, and their 310,000 barrels per day Port Arthur, Texas refinery would receive the Alberta-born crude. Valero has invested heavily to upgrade the Port Arthur plant to handle “heavy” “sour” crude (a.k.a. tar sands DilBit) for the past few years, anticipating the pipeline’s completion.

The company has long hoped for a steady supply of Alberta’s tar sands crude, first signing on to Keystone in July of 2008. In 2010, when the Texas company was pouring money into California’s Prop 23 battle, spokesperson Bill Day urged that Alberta is “a tremendous potential supplier for us.”

While their involvement with Keystone XL has largely flown under the radar, Valero was exposed in the bombshell “Exporting Energy Security: Keystone XL Exposed” (PDF) report by Oil Change International in September. The report found that, despite constant claims by TransCanada and other Keystone supporters of increased “energy security,” much of the crude that flows through Keystone XL would be exported. Valero was held up as a prime example of how and why. From that report:
Valero, the top beneficiary of the Keystone XL pipeline, has recently explicitly detailed an export strategy to its investors. The nation’s top refiner has locked in at least 20 percent of the pipeline’s capacity, and, because its refinery in Port Arthur is within a Foreign Trade Zone, the company will accomplish its export strategy tax free.


Shell’s subsidiary Motiva and Total, both “shippers” with long-term contracts with TransCanada, also operate in this Foreign Trade Zone, meaning that they are exempt from customs duties on imports and exports, and also from state and local taxes.

In other words: they can sell the Keystone XL crude overseas without paying American taxes. Combine that with the fact that the Port Arthur plants are conditioned to take low-grade tar sands crude and refine it to diesel--which has much higher demand overseas-- and the incentive for Valero to export the Keystone XL crude is huge.
Link



http://www.politicalchat.org/showpos...89&postcount=9

4-2-7 03-23-2014 11:52 AM

Wow are you kidding.

The boogie man and hidden money.

It's widely documented that the Koch Brothers rank at around 58 on the list of donors. Out numbered by at least 10 Unions.

This thread should be posted in Conspiracy Theories!!!

4-2-7 03-23-2014 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak (Post 204277)
Really? According to the panicked and paranoid among us, we're living under a Fascist dictatorship.:rolleyes:

Dave

Agreed but don't forget the "Tyranny"

4-2-7 03-23-2014 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merrylander (Post 204265)
This tri partite government y'all love so much has this one flaw we have witnessed these last few years. It is quite simply that a collection of nay sayers in either the House or Senate can grind everything to a halt and there is not a damn thing that POTUS can do about it. Conversly if he decides to veto anything he can be overidden with enough votes

More and more it appears to me you like a dictatorship.

There still is a few countries that offer that for you if thats what you want. But this is America and no matter how hard people like you try you will not change us.

Boreas 03-23-2014 12:08 PM

AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!

http://i1.kwejk.pl/site_media/obrazk...-fuck-yeah.png

merrylander 03-23-2014 12:16 PM

Well Dave that was an interesting response to your post. I do believe it just admitted to being 'panicked and paranoid', good work.

BlueStreak 03-23-2014 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-2-7 (Post 204292)
Wow are you kidding.

The boogie man and hidden money.

It's widely documented that the Koch Brothers rank at around 58 on the list of donors. Out numbered by at least 10 Unions.

This thread should be posted in Conspiracy Theories!!!

I thought the evil "boogieman" who secretly runs the world was Soros?

And, if the unions are still so friggin' big, bad, scary and powerful why are their numbers dwindling so badly?

finnbow 03-23-2014 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-2-7 (Post 204296)
More and more it appears to me you like a dictatorship.

There still is a few countries that offer that for you if thats what you want. But this is America and no matter how hard people like you try you will not change us.

Nope. He's advocating a parliamentary system, it seems to me. I'm beginning to think we'd be better off with one, though it'll never happen.

merrylander 03-23-2014 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-2-7 (Post 204296)
More and more it appears to me you like a dictatorship.

There still is a few countries that offer that for you if thats what you want. But this is America and no matter how hard people like you try you will not change us.

Well I am not quite sure how you read all that crap into my post, perhaps a remedial reading class would help.

Athough your own Benjamin Franklin did suggest once that a despotic government might occur when Americans had become so corrupt as to require such, I think I have his words around here somewhere, ah yes here it is;

"I these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if there are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."


Benjamin Franklin Philadelphia 1787

I realize that your experience with the world is rather limited but there are many, many different forms of government between what you have here and a dictatorship should you care to investigate. As for attempting to change you I had only hoped to educate you a little but that task makes the Augean Stables look like a Sunday School picnic.

Have a nice day.:)

icenine 03-23-2014 12:52 PM

Limited is a apt description Merrylander.


Some people know they are not smart, but at least they realize it.

Some of are dumb but do not realize it...those are the ones you have to watch out for, say when they are running for President.

BlueStreak 03-23-2014 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merrylander (Post 204304)
Well Dave that was an interesting response to your post. I do believe it just admitted to being 'panicked and paranoid', good work.

Thanks, I do my best.:)

Dave

bobabode 03-23-2014 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merrylander (Post 204304)
Well Dave that was an interesting response to your post. I do believe it just admitted to being 'panicked and paranoid', good work.

Ughh, I had to unblock -5 temporarily to see it.

Fist bump and a high five Dave. Well done my friend.:)

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program...

and -5 is back on my eff off list. :rolleyes:
Good luck finding anyone to pay your fifty bucks for a Fleetwood Mac Rumours album that regularly sells for $35 on eBay, overpaid at Amoeba didja, or are you just trying to take advantage of trusting AudioKarma members?

Boreas 03-23-2014 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobabode (Post 204350)
and -5 is back on my eff off list. :rolleyes:
Good luck finding anyone to pay your fifty bucks for a Fleetwood Mac Rumours album that regularly sells for $35 on eBay, overpaid at Amoeba didja, or are you just trying to take advantage of trusting AudioKarma members?

I sure am glad you have Tar Baby on your ignore list. Now you won't have any reason to deal with him at all. ;)

John

Ike Bana 03-23-2014 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-2-7 (Post 204292)
Wow are you kidding.

The boogie man and hidden money.

It's widely documented that the Koch Brothers rank at around 58 on the list of donors. Out numbered by at least 10 Unions.

This thread should be posted in Conspiracy Theories!!!

Y'know 5 below...one can go out of one's way to make a lucid point and just wait patiently for you to provide some cretinous distraction...sooner or later, there it is.

The sucker is you...gullible to the end in your belief that the Koch brothers are somehow looking out for you and your fellow nitwit neocons, when the Koch brothers are not looking out for anybody but the Koch brothers. The Koch brothers would sit in their Maybach 62S and gleefully watch you starve to death.

bobabode 03-23-2014 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigerik (Post 204249)

Swerving back on topic :) Isn't it funny how the Kochs' money that they directly donate is also bundled with $100s of millions that they get their cronies to donate to the GOP run superpacs. It isn't just the FEC reported $4.9 million directly sent to their pet candidates, you also have the $407 millions of dark Koch money laundered through these so called social welfare tax exempt 501c4 organizations. Added to that is an astronomical amount of dark money from their partners in crime.

Is it any wonder that Darryl Issa has such a big fat hard on for the IRS? The plutoc-rats have been using this giant loophole in the tax law governing 501c4 corps as a shield to hide how much influence a small group of ultra wealthy donors are exerting on elections in this country. Issa's mission is to forestall any reconsideration of the Republican reinterpretation of the law. As written 501c4 law states only social welfare is allowed by these organizations. In the 1950s there was a Republican administrative rewrite that allowed them to use 49% of the black money they receive to sway elections.

As to these ultra wealthy top 1%? Of course they want something in return, after all they are businessmen first and foremost and it's all in the bottom line for these people. You can bet your last bottom dollar that they will be pulling the strings for as long as we allow it to continue.

Tom Joad 03-23-2014 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boreas (Post 204299)


ROFLMAO.

This site needs more smilies.

4-2-7 03-23-2014 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike Bana (Post 204357)
Y'know 5 below...one can go out of one's way to make a lucid point and just wait patiently for you to provide some cretinous distraction...sooner or later, there it is.

The sucker is you...gullible to the end in your belief that the Koch brothers are somehow looking out for you and your fellow nitwit neocons, when the Koch brothers are not looking out for anybody but the Koch brothers. The Koch brothers would sit in their Maybach 62S and gleefully watch you starve to death.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlf45...iriam-adelson/


Heavy Hitters: Top All-Time Donors, 1989-2014
Based on data released by the FEC on February 18, 2014.
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

barbara 03-23-2014 07:51 PM

-5..... It's probably a good thing the others have you on ignore.
I'm thinking your last link would give them reason to rip your logic to pieces.

(Hint; it's usually not a good idea to post a link that supports a viewpoint you are opposing).

bobabode 03-23-2014 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbara (Post 204383)
-5..... It's probably a good thing the others have you on ignore.
I'm thinking your last link would give them reason to rip your logic to pieces.

(Hint; it's usually not a good idea to post a link that supports a viewpoint you are opposing).

Open mouth insert foot time for -5? Must be a Walmart shopper...:rolleyes:

4-2-7 03-23-2014 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbara (Post 204383)
-5..... It's probably a good thing the others have you on ignore.
I'm thinking your last link would give them reason to rip your logic to pieces.

(Hint; it's usually not a good idea to post a link that supports a viewpoint you are opposing).

Hi Barbara,

It's not opposing as the goal for me but the truth and balance. One can't point there fingers at others all the while supporting the same thing elsewhere.

Cheers

barbara 03-23-2014 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-2-7 (Post 204386)
Hi Barbara,



It's not opposing as the goal for me but the truth and balance. One can't point there fingers at others all the while supporting the same thing elsewhere.



Cheers



Ever get tired of that whooshing sound over your head?

4-2-7 03-23-2014 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbara (Post 204388)
Ever get tired of that whooshing sound over your head?

I'm short so it's not loud.;)

MikeG22 03-23-2014 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbara (Post 204388)
ever get tired of that whooshing sound over your head?

lol :d

bobabode 03-23-2014 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeG22 (Post 204393)
lol :d

+1 :D http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/ima...ilies/lmao.gifhttp://www.audiokarma.org/forums/ima...ilies/lmao.gif

whell 03-23-2014 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobabode (Post 204360)
Swerving back on topic :) Isn't it funny how the Kochs' money that they directly donate is also bundled with $100s of millions that they get their cronies to donate to the GOP run superpacs. It isn't just the FEC reported $4.9 million directly sent to their pet candidates, you also have the $407 millions of dark Koch money laundered through these so called social welfare tax exempt 501c4 organizations. Added to that is an astronomical amount of dark money from their partners in crime.

Is it any wonder that Darryl Issa has such a big fat hard on for the IRS? The plutoc-rats have been using this giant loophole in the tax law governing 501c4 corps as a shield to hide how much influence a small group of ultra wealthy donors are exerting on elections in this country. Issa's mission is to forestall any reconsideration of the Republican reinterpretation of the law. As written 501c4 law states only social welfare is allowed by these organizations. In the 1950s there was a Republican administrative rewrite that allowed them to use 49% of the black money they receive to sway elections.

As to these ultra wealthy top 1%? Of course they want something in return, after all they are businessmen first and foremost and it's all in the bottom line for these people. You can bet your last bottom dollar that they will be pulling the strings for as long as we allow it to continue.

Don't you worry 'bout it none. Dems are getting their fair share too, Bob. You guys better thank your lucky stars that Citizens United is helping get those lefty Super PAC's all cranked up.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...roups/2607941/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/1...publican-slump

Boreas 03-23-2014 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 204407)
Don't you worry 'bout it none. Dems are getting their fair share too, Bob. You guys better thank your lucky stars that Citizens United is helping get those lefty Super PAC's all cranked up.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...roups/2607941/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/1...publican-slump

Both these articles are pretty old and cover the period while Republican donors, especially the big ones, were busy being pissed off at Romney and Turd Blossom for blowing all their money. It's a very different ballgame now.

And how, exactly, is Americans for Responsible Solutions a "Democtatic Super-PAC"?

John

bobabode 03-24-2014 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 204407)
Don't you worry 'bout it none. Dems are getting their fair share too, Bob. You guys better thank your lucky stars that Citizens United is helping get those lefty Super PAC's all cranked up.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...roups/2607941/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/1...publican-slump


You obviously like to think that money equals speech Mike. I guess that's the critical difference between you and me, I don't and I hate the fact that it was your rightwing activist boys on the Supreme Court who think that corporations are people. Nice try Mike but you can keep on pretending if you think that it is somehow a level playing field. Turn off the Glenn Beck Show, that shit won't fly around here. :rolleyes:

Like a new members' sig line says, "I'll believe corporations are people, when Texas executes one". Pio1980.

All 501c4 groups should adhere to the letter of the law as written and that means no politicking period, full stop. Your Uhmericans For Prosperity would be bankrupt in a week and I hope the DOJ enforces it under Obama. Why do you think that the snake Darryl Issa is shitting himself over the IRS?

bobabode 03-24-2014 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boreas (Post 204409)
Both these articles are pretty old and cover the period while Republican donors, especially the big ones, were busy being pissed off at Romney and Turd Blossom for blowing all their money. It's a very different ballgame now.

And how, exactly, is Americans for Responsible Solutions a "Democtatic Super-PAC"?

John

Whell's cherrypickin' his stories? Say it ain't so...:rolleyes: Of course he ignored the salient point that the Repugnants always have deeper pockets.

"It's a stark reversal from the 2012 presidential and congressional elections when Republican groups dominated spending."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...roups/2607941/

I did like the second one predicting a fratricidal bloodbath between the Goppers and the Cruz Crazies. Both stories were before the Paul/Cruz shutdown demolished the 'pubbies brand. Gawd damn weasels even turned the Chamberpot of Commerce against the 'baggers. Muy delicioso...:rolleyes:

Ike Bana 03-24-2014 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-2-7 (Post 204380)
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlf45...iriam-adelson/


Heavy Hitters: Top All-Time Donors, 1989-2014
Based on data released by the FEC on February 18, 2014.
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

Can you be this inane? It doesn't matter, 5 below. The heavy hitters do it and they do it for themselves. If the Koch bros thought they could get more financial benefit out of supporting democrat politicians they would. That's what heavy hitters do.

And now, thanks to you, I have a pretty good resource to do what I do, which is to refrain from doing business with any company showing a red elephant in the list, and to consider strongly doing the same with any company with a "fence". Much obliged.

JJIII 03-24-2014 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike Bana (Post 204426)
Can you be this inane? It doesn't matter, 5 below. The heavy hitters do it and they do it for themselves. If the Koch bros thought they could get more financial benefit out of supporting democrat politicians they would. That's what heavy hitters do.

True

And now, thanks to you, I have a pretty good resource to do what I do, which is to refrain from doing business with any company showing a red elephant in the list, and to consider strongly doing the same with any company with a "fence". Much obliged.

That may prove to be problematic.

Ike Bana 03-24-2014 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJIII (Post 204440)
That may prove to be problematic.

Really?

whell 03-24-2014 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boreas (Post 204409)
Both these articles are pretty old and cover the period while Republican donors, especially the big ones, were busy being pissed off at Romney and Turd Blossom for blowing all their money. It's a very different ballgame now.

And how, exactly, is Americans for Responsible Solutions a "Democtatic Super-PAC"?

John

Not so different. Dems also got a nice bump this fall during the shut down. It goes in cycles.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4123208.html

Regarding "Americans for Responsible Solutions": This message appears right on their web site home page:

"Paid for by Americans for Responsible Solutions, a section 501(c)(4) issue advocacy organization, and Americans for Responsible Solutions PAC, a federal political committee. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee."

whell 03-24-2014 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobabode (Post 204418)
Whell's cherrypickin' his stories? Say it ain't so...:rolleyes: Of course he ignored the salient point that the Repugnants always have deeper pockets.

I don't ignore anything, Bob. In particular, I don't ignore it when someone like, well, you for instance, takes two different issues and mashes them together to create a straw man. If you were paying attention to the article in the OP, the author was complaining that contributions to PAC's were not factored in. That's what I was responding to.

You, however, seem to be citing the historical edge that Repubs have had over Dems with campaign (non-PAC) fund raising (which is not in dispute), and conflating the PAC and direct campaign spending when doing so. I mean, I know that the left loves to bitch about Citizens United and all, but it certainly does seem like both parties love to feed at that particular trough. Maybe this page will help clarify:

https://www.opensecrets.org/bigpictu...php?cycle=2012


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