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-   -   3 Inconvenient Facts That Make Libertarians Heads Explode (http://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=7069)

Bigerik 03-12-2014 09:44 PM

3 Inconvenient Facts That Make Libertarians Heads Explode
 
Interesting read, I thought:

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/12/3_in...plode_partner/

4-2-7 03-12-2014 09:49 PM

Well I was going to read it until the first "Fact" was Leftwing Ideology and Propaganda.

Thanks.

Bigerik 03-12-2014 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-2-7 (Post 201426)
Well I was going to read it until the first "Fact" was Leftwing Ideology and Propaganda.

Thanks.

Good man!
Great way to make sure that mind of your stays closed.

4-2-7 03-12-2014 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigerik (Post 201427)
Good man!
Great way to make sure that mind of your stays closed.

Sorry I have heard the 1% rich and class warfare bull shit quite enough. All it is designed for is to divide people. If you really want to make this country prosper you need to reduce governments power. They are the ones picking winners and losers, they enable lobbyist. Until you put the federal government in there place they will continue to gain more power and give power to who they gain theirs from.

Fact: It's not you or the general population.

Bigerik 03-12-2014 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-2-7 (Post 201428)
Sorry I have heard the 1% rich and class warfare bull shit quite enough. All it is designed for is to divide people. If you really want to make this country prosper you need to reduce governments power. They are the ones picking winners and losers, they enable lobbyist. Until you put the federal government in there place they will continue to gain more power and give power to who they gain theirs from.

Fact: It's not you or the general population.

So that's why you don't like the article. Hits to close to home, huh?

4-2-7 03-12-2014 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigerik (Post 201430)
So that's why you don't like the article. Hits to close to home, huh?

I didn't read the article. I said I stopped at his first fact which is not fact. No need to go further.

Bigerik 03-12-2014 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-2-7 (Post 201431)
I didn't read the article. I said I stopped at his first fact which is not fact. No need to go further.

So it didn't take three to make your head explode. Just one. Gotcha.

bobabode 03-12-2014 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigerik (Post 201433)
So it didn't take three to make your head explode. Just one. Gotcha.


Bingo.

4-2-7 03-12-2014 10:36 PM

By the way we most likely see the same problem but not the same fix.
But if your interested this man has the fix. In my opinion the only fix and even got agreement a Zuccotti Park.

The crowd in the day time was not so bright but later at night more intelligent people showed up. More inline with collage kids and working class. At 41 minutes it's getting to be night time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=kGdH7iGNqlY

Zeke 03-12-2014 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigerik (Post 201433)
So it didn't take three to make your head explode. Just one. Gotcha.

B-I-N-G-O!

Were I there, I would give you a cigar! :D

bobabode 03-12-2014 11:40 PM

Irony defined, 427 won't read one page and debate an issue but suggests that the OP watch an hour long video. :rolleyes:

Boreas 03-13-2014 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobabode (Post 201438)
Irony defined, 427 won't read one page and debate an issue but suggests that the OP watch an hour long video. :rolleyes:

Damn near 2 hours. I packed it in after about 20 minutes. The guy was just lyin' his ass off.

John

d-ray657 03-13-2014 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobabode (Post 201438)
Hypocrisy defined, 427 won't read one page and debate an issue but suggests that the OP watch an hour long video. :rolleyes:

Fixed it for ya.

Regards,

D-Ray

4-2-7 03-13-2014 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boreas (Post 201444)
Damn near 2 hours. I packed it in after about 20 minutes. The guy was just lyin' his ass off.

John

Lies, Really?

I also said one should advance the vid to get to a more intelligent protest population at the park. Kind of funny though no one was able to blow holes in his argument. The ones that were not totally brainwashed and had a dialoge found that they have more in common and in agreement.

So since he was lying so much then you will not have trouble saying where. Be specific please.

BlueStreak 03-13-2014 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigerik (Post 201425)

Excellent article, packed with truth that escapes of the slow witted of this world. Libertarianism is all about creating an environment where the snake oil salesmen, con men, rip-off artists and aspiring plantation masters no longer have to fear direct legal retribution for their sociopathic malfeasance.

They think this is "Freedom". Of course they are wrong. It is nothing more than crime legalized by the criminals themselves. It's only "freedom" if you're a criminal. The most glaring fact they refuse to see is that their movement was designed by said snake oil salesmen, con men, rip-off artists and aspiring plantation masters;

Ladies and Gentlemen I refer you to Chuck-n-Daves Travelling Circus, featuring the Fat Wizard, Mitt the Outsourcer, Captain Paranoid and the Ditz of Denali.

Musical Entertainment provided by "Reverend Rightwing Whacko" opening for "The Draft Dodger of Detroit" who shall regale us with tunes from his latest his latest album, "Pedophile with a Gun Fetish".

Come one, Come All, Enjoy the Show! (With a gracious nod to P.T. Barnum)

Have a nice day,
Dave

BlueStreak 03-13-2014 07:51 AM

You can listen to the Michigander asshole in the cowboy hat all you want.

At the moment we still have free artistic choice. Until Tailgunner Darryl forms a new HUAC and finds certain songs "subversive" and damaging to the wholesome purity of the RNC approved True Patriot thought process, that is.

So..............

I prefer the gentleman from California;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr1eGEoARCw

Dave

donquixote99 03-13-2014 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak (Post 201462)
Excellent article, packed with truth that escapes of the slow witted of this world. Libertarianism is all about creating an environment where the snake oil salesmen, con men, rip-off artists and aspiring plantation masters no longer have to fear direct legal retribution for their sociopathic malfeasance.

They think this is "Freedom". Of course they are wrong. It is nothing more than crime legalized by the criminals themselves. It's only "freedom" if you're a criminal. The most glaring fact they refuse to see is that their movement was designed by said snake oil salesmen, con men, rip-off artists and aspiring plantation masters;

Ladies and Gentlemen I refer you to Chuck-n-Daves Travelling Circus, featuring the Fat Wizard, Mitt the Outsourcer, Captain Paranoid and the Ditz of Denali.

Musical Entertainment provided by "Reverend Rightwing Whacko" opening for "The Draft Dodger of Detroit" who shall regale us with tunes from his latest his latest album, "Pedophile with a Gun Fetish".

Come one, Come All, Enjoy the Show! (With a gracious nod to P.T. Barnum)

Have a nice day,
Dave

Perfect!

Allow me to suggest as a musical coda, a little Brain Salad Surgery:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_zo0FiNheI

icenine 03-13-2014 07:54 AM

Trump and Romney...self-made men......whatever.

Mitt's father that was a self-made man....or one that used the opportunity that America provided to make millions. He also was a man whose car company employed hard working Americans.

Mitt is an outsourcer carried income sort of man who was born into wealth.

Ike Bana 03-13-2014 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-2-7 (Post 201431)
I didn't read the article. I said I stopped at his first fact which is not fact. No need to go further.


BWAAAAAAAHAHAH!!! You're the William Jennings Bryan of PoliticalChat. Darrow says to Bryan, "Have you actually read any of Darwin?" Bryan, "I have no interest in the blasphemies of that Godless book!"

4-2-7, self-proclaimed forum ignoramus.

Most important of the 3 to me is number 3. If you live in Love's Canal, Harrisburg PA, the Gulf Coast, Libby Montana, Kingston Tennessee, Prince William Sound, Picher Oklahoma, or our local little environmental nightmare town...Lisle, IL home of Lockformer...hey! Listen to the von Mieses addicts and quitcher bitchin', call the newspapers, hire a lawyer, and stop buying their product. The corporatists don't want bad publicity...they don't want to be sued...they don't want to lose your business!!!!!!!! Exercise your rights as Americans rather than depending on the government.

Thanks Dr. Paul...go fuck yourself.

If there were as many brain dead libertarians as their are brain dead ultra-conservatives in this country, we'd be in even worse trouble.

BlueStreak 03-13-2014 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icenine (Post 201467)
Trump and Romney...self-made men......whatever.

Mitt's father that was a self-made man....or one that used the opportunity that America provided to make millions. He also was a man whose car company employed hard working Americans.

Mitt is an outsourcer carried income sort of man who was born into wealth.

Hey, there are thousands of Mexican and Chinese workers who owe their peasant wage lifestyle to that man! Think of all the bankruptcy attorneys and foreclosure auctioneers in de-industrialized towns across this great land who owe their fortunes to Mitt!

Ferfuksake, have the decency to give credit where credit is due, Robbin!:mad:

Dave

JJIII 03-13-2014 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 201466)
Perfect!

Allow me to suggest as a musical coda, a little Brain Salad Surgery:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_zo0FiNheI


Just what I was going to suggest!:)

noonereal 03-13-2014 08:27 AM

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg

is my suggestion

bobabode 03-13-2014 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d-ray657 (Post 201458)
Fixed it for ya.

Regards,

D-Ray

:D True dat counselor. ;)

CarlV 03-13-2014 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-2-7 (Post 201459)
Lies, Really?

I also said one should advance the vid to get to a more intelligent protest population at the park. Kind of funny though no one was able to blow holes in his argument. The ones that were not totally brainwashed and had a dialoge found that they have more in common and in agreement.

So since he was lying so much then you will not have trouble saying where. Be specific please.

So you are trying to re-direct this thread to some part of a youtube video and you want everybody else to do your legwork? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
So where is your partner Spamm at anyway?


Carl

whell 03-13-2014 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noonereal (Post 201477)

Mark your calendars, for today is the day that noone and I finally found something we could agree on. :eek:

bobabode 03-13-2014 05:59 PM

Jeeze Mike. Do you think there would ever be a chance for us? :D

Boreas 03-13-2014 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 201621)
Mark your calendars, for today is the day that noone and I finally found something we could agree on. :eek:

Nice guy! Now Ed will never be able to listen to Alison Krauss again.

John

bobabode 03-15-2014 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak (Post 201465)
You can listen to the Michigander asshole in the cowboy hat all you want.

At the moment we still have free artistic choice. Until Tailgunner Darryl forms a new HUAC and finds certain songs "subversive" and damaging to the wholesome purity of the RNC approved True Patriot thought process, that is.

So..............

I prefer the gentleman from California;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr1eGEoARCw

Dave

Great, now I'm stuck in a YouTube Zappa universe. Damn you BlueStreak! ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSsRTuXfAUc

Tom Joad 03-16-2014 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigerik (Post 201433)
So it didn't take three to make your head explode. Just one. Gotcha.

:D;):)

Tom Joad 03-16-2014 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobabode (Post 201438)
Irony defined, 427 won't read one page and debate an issue but suggests that the OP watch an hour long video. :rolleyes:

He's here to derail threads.

And he has a pretty good track record in that regard.

Boreas 03-16-2014 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Joad (Post 202366)
He's here to derail threads.

And he has a pretty good track record in that regard.

Hence all the "Tar Baby" references.

You go after him and you get "stuck in it", talking about what he wants to talk about and talking about on his terms.

John

4-2-7 03-16-2014 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boreas (Post 202372)
Hence all the "Tar Baby" references.

You go after him and you get "stuck in it", talking about what he wants to talk about and talking about on his terms.

John

No I make comments on the threads a just like this quoted post of yours you drift off on me as the topic. Then I respond lol.

Get a life the whole world does not agree with your babble.

4-2-7 03-16-2014 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Sahib;202378[B
]Libertarianism would be a perfect political ideology but for one flaw: it doesn’t work. The problem is that it is not based on reality.[/B] It is a construct as advanced in works of philosophy and fiction, e.g., Utopia, Thomas Moore (1516); Island, Aldous Huxley (1962). It simply fails to take human nature into account. In W. Somerset Maugham’s novel The Moon and Sixpence, a roman à clef based loosely on the life of the artist Paul Gauguin, the narrator asks the principal character Charles Strickland about his views on Kant’s categorical imperative: "Act so that every one of your actions is capable of being made into a universal rule." To which Strickland. replies, "I never heard it before, but it's rotten nonsense."

That's kind of funny since all politics today are built on deception and lies. Or can you say otherwise?

4-2-7 03-16-2014 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Sahib (Post 202382)
“A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that’s true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not.”
- Ronald Reagan (1987)

There are many forms of deceit from the little white lies we tell in our private lives to the blackest calumny in the councils of public affairs. Deception infects every aspect of human intercourse. Some lies are told for the sake of oneself, some for the sake of others, and all for the sake of convenience, which is the bastard child of corruption. Even so, no lie can live alone; it must be supported by a whole family of falsehoods. But the most foolish deception of all, that of oneself; for in believing our own lies, we are fooling no one but ourselves.

I see it more these days that the will to believe the lies told is strongest. It doesn't mater if facts are present it's still a falsehood.

finnbow 03-16-2014 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-2-7 (Post 202383)
I see it more these days that the will to believe the lies told is strongest. It doesn't mater if facts are present it's still a falsehood.

Explain in plain English.

merrylander 03-16-2014 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 202385)
Explain in plain English.

Good luck with that.:)

donquixote99 03-16-2014 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-2-7 (Post 202379)
That's kind of funny since all politics today are built on deception and lies. Or can you say otherwise?


You pretty much have to keep telling yourself that, don't you--being a cog in the lie machine.

merrylander 03-16-2014 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Sahib (Post 202389)
"Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt."
- Julius Caesar, Gallic War, III:18.
. . .

It is not in our nature to see things for what they are. We prefer to believe in fanciful notions that are untrue. Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia 1431-1501) once said that men are so simple they will believe anything. The Borgia Pope, while the spiritual leader of the Church, was, if anything, a homme du monde; and, for all his faults, a keen observer of human nature, noting that it is a defect in the human character that we would rather listen to lies than believe the truth we can see with our own eyes. Even when forced to confront the facts, we deny them and make up excuses.

In The Prince (modeled after Pope Alexander’s son, Cesare Borgia), Niccolo Machiavelli wrote about the state and its rule as it is rather than as it should be, for which, after five centuries of experience, he continues to be roundly condemned. It is a social preference for what we choose to believe, though false, over what is in fact true. Great Caesar was right when he wrote: "Men willingly believe what they wish to be true."

Having lived long I can recall a time when this statement was probably true of many, perhaps all, of us, but it is not necessarily a permanent condition. Perhaps Barnum hit closer to the mark.

4-2-7 03-16-2014 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Sahib (Post 202389)
"Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt."
- Julius Caesar, Gallic War, III:18.
. . .

It is not in our nature to see things for what they are. We prefer to believe in fanciful notions that are untrue. Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia 1431-1501) once said that men are so simple they will believe anything. The Borgia Pope, while the spiritual leader of the Church, was, if anything, a homme du monde; and, for all his faults, a keen observer of human nature, noting that it is a defect in the human character that we would rather listen to lies than believe the truth we can see with our own eyes. Even when forced to confront the facts, we deny them and make up excuses.

In The Prince (modeled after Pope Alexander’s son, Cesare Borgia), Niccolo Machiavelli wrote about the state and its rule as it is rather than as it should be, for which, after five centuries of experience, he continues to be roundly condemned. It is a social preference for what we choose to believe, though false, over what is in fact true. Great Caesar was right when he wrote: "Men willingly believe what they wish to be true."

That quote would be awesome in the above Political Chat banner.

Boreas 03-16-2014 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merrylander (Post 202390)
Having lived long I can recall a time when this statement was probably true of many, perhaps all, of us, but it is not necessarily a permanent condition. Perhaps Barnum hit closer to the mark.

Rob, I think Barnum, Caesar and the Borgia Pope were all on the same page. It's just that the old showman was a bit cruder in expressing what the others had said. We believe what we want to believe, whether it's that the lady really was sawn in half or that there are WMD in Iraq..... or that the Fascists in Ukraine carried out a democratic revolution. If the carnival barkers and political pitchmen tell us something that confirms what we want to believe about ourselves or others, we're all over it, whether it be true or otherwise.

John


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