Did the American Revolution flop in the long run?
 

Here's a provocative op-ed piece asserting that we would have been better off had we not had a revolution and followed more closely Canada's march through history.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...a01_story.html

As for having a balanced budget, a better health care system, greater happiness for its citizens and more trust in their government's ability to tackle the issues of the day, Canada does indeed look pretty good. Fishing's not bad either.;)

In another twenty years due to rising temps B.C. will be like central California in it's climate. Don't have to worry about wannabe tough guys running around locked and loaded either.:)

There is something to be said for things that are built more slowly and carefully. However, I'm not going anywhere. Whatever it's faults may be, this is my home.

Dave

For a historian, this guy must have a pretty myopic view of history. To equate the Russian revolution with all its following baggage to the American Revolution is the most absurd thing I think I've ever read.

It is a bit of a stretch, but I think he's looking at opposite extremes. I'm guessing his point is that a populace chained will not thrive, but a populace completely free to destroy itself will do just that---destroy itself. Along the lines of Maos assertion that the best way to destroy a capitalist is to encourage his greed, then stand back and watch him destroy himself.

Not sure that I agree with it in sum total, but I can see how the model operates.

Dave

We have 350 million people in a geographically smaller country. Canada is the world's second largest nation geographically speaking but has a much smaller population than we do. I think their nation is easier to manage for one thing.

The point the author made about Jefferson advocating change to keep up with a society always in a dynamic flux is valid. I honestly believe we have people voting that do not really understand what they are voting for.

On the other hand though we are not as bad as people say..otherwise they would not want to come here. The biggest moral stain in our history was slavery and jim crow. And we have made pretty good progress dealing with that. I am sort of with Whell about comparing our Revolution to the Soviet takeover of Russia....plus we did not commit genocide like Stalin did, if you can describe economic and political policies that killed millions of his own countrymen in such terms. Of course Native Americans might disagree with me on that point.

I think the thing that makes us very positive in the eyes of the world is that we our a classless society in that we do not discriminate on the basis of the ACQUISITION of wealth...in other words we offer more or less equality of opportunity for all people regardless of birth. In England you are judged on your accent and it is a sort of rigid society. Here you may be judged by how you speak but it will not be a hindrance to you in most cases. Plus being able to buy a house on credit makes us really nice in the eyes of immigrants from the "third world" who have to pay cash for their homes. That is what someone from Afghanistan told me once.

If I am beginning to sound like the Arkay or Wigwam Jones of political chat just shoot me.

Interesting one from David Horsey of the LA Times.:)

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,7712264.story

Lots of truth in this article. My college freshman son had a band in high school where the drummer was the son of an English airline executive living and working here for the past 8 years. The dad retired and they all moved back to England and the son goes to the University of East Anglia. They're back in the states for a month now and have been staying with us off and on. The differences are indeed few and far between.

Dr Who

More Would of Should of Could of ...........

With how we had growing pains, I believe with out our start there would be many different countries instead of one. Something about our birth and expansion West gave a sense of unity.



Barney

They are much better at us in regards to health care.

First you must lead me to believe my life might be in danger, then I can shoot you.;)

Dave

Oh, my! What about their exceptionalism?

Dave

Actually, I can think of at least one more... :(

Yes you are right.

Indeed. :( We have a long road ahead of us.

Ummmmmm............I'd say that just because one can move up, or in some cases down, from one class to the next does not mean we are a "classless society". I do believe this is one of the greatest illusions of the American society. Class warfare does indeed exist, here in America and the belief that it does not, is the reason so many are losing the fight and slipping into working poverty.

They will cook you a hotdog, smile in your face and tell you "...we're all in the same boat." at the company picnic. But, just let them catch you in the executive bathroom and watch what happens.

Now, if you are saying we are a country that has no class........one trip to WalMart is your point made.

Dave

you are right Dave I did not say we do not have classes.....I was talking about equality of opportunity that is present here more than some other countries so I do agree with you. Maybe it is not as present as it was say in the 90s however

Personally, due to the massive distance between wanton so************************m and unfettered capitalism, I believe things are just about right if 40% of the population is currently displeased with whatever the government is doing: to me, that implies the center of the Bell Curve is generally okay with you.

It's when the median becomes skewed that things get scary, although there are sometimes reasons for it.

What I don't get is when folks at either end of the thick middle start claiming things like totalitarian or so************************t regimes. Seriously? That just proves you don't know what those words mean.

Overall, I can't call the American Revolution a flop when, in general, I'm pretty pleased with what goes on, here.

Well thanks to entropy everything will be a flop....eventually.....

True enough, but statistics (at least those cited by the author) seem to indicate that those living in Canada are even more pleased to be there than we are to be here. That was the point of the article, after all.

There does seem to be a lot of unhappiness in the USA, these days. And, it has been growing for a long time. Me? I still love this place. I realized just how much last night when I started getting emotional during "America The Beautiful". Damn song always brings tears to my eyes. And the Army Band did such a great job of playing it.

Dave

Sniff...I know how you feel.

I feel the same way whenever I here Merle sing "Okie From Muskogee".

Saw an interview of Merle once, and they asked about his signature piece. He basically said, "I play what they want to hear."

Chas

SOmething Ice mentioned - home ownership, mortgages are available in Canada but you will never fins a Title company nor a Morgage Broker, at least they did not exist when I lived there. I simply found a house my ex liked, went to my bank and asked for a mortgage. A week later they called me and asked us to drop in. I told them what I had for a deposit and wrote a check for that, signed one piece of paper wrote another chack for $600 and I was a homeowner. Mortgages are 5/25 in other words the term is25 years but interest rates are set every 5 years.

My mortgage was up for its last 5 years wheninterest rates went crazy (the Volker years). I asked my bany if I could pay it off. I cashed in an insurance policy but so was half of the population and the company was swamped. Two weeks later the bank called and aske if I could at least give them part of the balance so I gave them what I could. The following week I got the insurance check and paid it all off - try that with a bank here.

The last time I saw figures home ownership there as a percentage of population was marginally higher than here.

Lifestyle is more laid back in fact when I first moved to Ottawa cars were sporting stickers that said "Courtesy is contagious- try it" and most drivers did. When I used to commute to NOVA and a driver beside me would indicate a wish to get in my lane they would be in shock for about 5 seconds when I waved them over.

After the divorce I told my ex she could live in the house as long as she wanted. She was so hopeless with taxes and such I paid the alimony with after tax dollars and never claimed her, even paid the property taxes because she woul have forgotten.

After I met Florence and we wanted to marry I had to figure out how to support two homes. Early retirement took care of my ex and the job offer came from NoVA when they herd I was available so that is why I am here. If the housing market ever improves we will likely head north east to the Maritimes. Ottawa has no fond memories after the marriage self-destructed there.

BTW CAnada has written their Bill of Rights that a lot of other countries are using as a model.

I posted about this last year. Our constitution was the model for developing countries seeking democracy until a few decades back. It's flaws were recognized worldwide and these countries began to use the Canadian Charter on Rights and Freedoms, among others (South Africa). Ruth Bader Ginsburg pointed this out in an interview a couple of years ago and the wingnuts went crazy (or crazier).

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/us...the-world.html

Just not a fair comparison....just not on the same scale. One is a huge more complex nation with an easily identified slave heritage.

A fair comparison.....Brazil.

Not really,the author's premise was the comparison of three former British colonies and the difference between achieving independence via revolution or by legislation.

You cam't deny that the history of violence lingers today.

But consider India and Pakistan to name some former colonies. Both countries made up by European decree not taking into account the local politics.



Barney

Whether by revolution or legislation the effects of a huge slave population makes America a more difficult and complex society.

Perhaps, but how then do you explain that the current South African constitution has become a model for new democracies rather than ours?

I am trying to recall the date but slavery was outlawed in Canada so it must have existed at one point in time.

Regardless I fail to see how having had a large slave population prenented the country from having decent healthcare, or good social programs.

Someone noted the "land of opportunity" thing which has now become a myth as several Eiropean countries have pushed us down in that list as well.

1793

http://www.pbs.org/wned/underground-...lavery-canada/

When a sizable section of the population is not considered to be human then the overall quality of government and societal views must be terribly affected, irrespective of the route taken by the colonies.

And pushed us down the list with better PUBLIC education systems and funding.

Instead, we have a bunch of morons on an anti-intellectual bent, badmouthing and advocating disinvestment in ours. Very nice. Bodes well for Americas future. They'd better keep lionizing ignorant cornpone-ism because soon that's all we'll have left in this country.

Dave

Slavery............Also had to be brought down through extreme political pressure and ultimately, violence, in this country. Whereas other "civilized" nations had already outlawed it through legislation............relatively peaceful means.

There's a point to ponder. Think I will.

Dave

Our Founding Fathers deliberately punted on the issue of slavery. As you said, this long-brewing and unresolved issue ultimately led to the second bloodiest war in our history (and it was self-inflicted).

They punted again with the Missouri Compromise (3/5th of a man,IIRC) and put Missourans and Kansans at each others throats years before the shelling of Fort Sumpter in Charleston Harbor.

Edit-Doh. I should click on links before repeating what you just said, Pat. Pardon me.

Ah yes...good times....MO get's to be in the Union and keep her slaves.

Bunch of folks in MO still very proud of that ( and the signs on the bridge and the......) They don't really care for Obama either ;)

There used to be a national restaurant chain called the 'Missouri Compromise', I never did get the reason for calling it that unless they wanted to keep black folks out. Never patronized them myself.