Zimmerman trial starts today.
 

I really hope that justice will be done in this case.

I agree!

Let the circus resume.

I'm hoping the whole escapade has a chilling effect on the SYG laws in the courts. If we can't get rid of the law, we can press the shooters harder to prove the validity of their actions.

Dave

Again, I agree.

I will be surprised if any real justice is delivered in a verdict. See a slap on the wrist or a walk. Now if there is a civil case for liability then maybe.

Barney

How do you define "justice" in this case?

Go buy a dictionary.

Wouldn't you say it would be the guy that stalked, shot and killed a young man pays for his crime?

For me he would need to be found guilty and do serious jail time. You can't take the law into your own hands and cause a altercation ending in death without consequences.

But I fear the prosecution will be outclassed by the defense team. Will be playing catchup throughout the trial.



Barney

Go buy a clue.

A unanimous verdict by a jury of his peers.

Assuming that our method of jurisprudence is to try the case in the media. Frankly, there's been an overindulgence of racism, emotionalism and politics in this case stoked by a voracious, 24/7 cable news cesspool that will, hopefully, not be present in the courtroom.

The jury will hear the facts in the case as presented by the prosecution and defense. There will be a judge which will instruct the jury to render a verdict within the confines of Florida law. I don't have a dog in this race one way or another, but the circus that has surrounded this case has been sickening.

We have a winner.

The media is interested in a story, not in justice. It seems that they always have to have some sort of murder case to harp on incessantly. For a change, this one doesn't involve an attractive white girl who has murdered or been murdered (Jon Benet Ramsey, Natalie Holloway, Jody Arias, Amanda Knox ....) and does touch on issues of broader social import (Stand Your Ground, racial profiling, over-reliance of firearms for personal security). However, it still remains a local story IMHO, and coverage should be limited to central Florida. I don't know what happened that night in Sanford and really don't care.

Good, Zimmermans' back. We needed to argue something with no facts :p

Pete

It's kinda warm here for the hoodies to come back out.

It frightens me that there are people pushing to change that. At what point does the public and the press not have any right to participate in the process? Methinks the founders fear of "Mobocracy" is coming to fruition.

Dave

HLN will have their "legal experts" decide the outcome long before the judge gives it to the jury.

No shit, Sherlock. That's what I meant by go buy a dictionary, Mike.
That said, from the information that this lying scumbag has offered with his own mouth and the police telling him to cease and desist from stalking the dead kid. He's guilty of a charge ranging from aggravated assault to 2nd degree murder. The jury will decide which it is to be.

Bottom line?

No gun, no death.

In this case, true. I agree.

But not in a local case at the lake here. A man beat another man to death while a crowd stood and watched. There were no weapons of any kind used, just one pissed off man that was stronger and much meaner than the man he got pissed at.

I hope you never face that boys situation, but if you ever do then I hope you are stronger than the one who grabs hold of you. And if you aren't, then I hope somebody steps into the fight to save you because it doesn't always work out so good if they don't.

For a moment consider the scenario of Zimmerman having pulled the gun first and Travon then fighting for his life! Something a kid would do without thinking. Why is it taken as fact anything Zimmerman may say now? We all must remember only one version of events can be told now.

You have a known fact the one person talking now is a wanna be cop with a gun. Last I checked vigilante justice was not legal.



Barney

Lots of assumptions going on ;)

Pete

No gun, Trayvon would still be alive.
Gunboy was told to leave him alone and wait for cops, and if he did, Trayvon would still be alive.
He did not leave him alone as the cops told him to do. He went ahead and escalated the situation from what it was at that time, otherwise Trayvon would still be alive.



No assumptions there. :)



Carl

So Zimmerman should have been beat like a rug instead? Does that apply to cops too?

Pete

Don't think most people have considered this possibility. Probably closest thing to the truth that I've heard.

Exactly right.
👍

How do you know Zimmerman was beaten like a rug, were you there?

Pot, meet kettle.

He did have damage on the back of his head, from it being slammed into the ground.

For all this, are we all prepared to stand by the results of the trial? Will there be riots if not guilty, and would they be justified?

Pete

Yeh, Zimmie's head was such a mess in the cop shop video...:rolleyes: Skinny black kid beat him like a rug?

Skill and heart mean a LOT. Going by size will possibly give a false impression. I saw a small HS wrestler take down 3 guys like magic.

Here's the thing - it appears that, by their current law, Zimmerman is off the hook. It's why they didn't take him into custody immediately. As you said, there's only one story, with no contradictory evidence (that we know about) to boot.

So do we abide the rule of law?

Btw, a cop here was talking about Castle Law (home, not street) and said the burden of proof under these laws is on the trespasser - and dead men don't tell tales.

Pete

Pete, I would think there might be evidence of the 911 dispatcher telling Zimmerman to stay in his vehicle and let law enforcement handle it.

Understood, but that's not the law in case, is my understanding.

Pete

1) T. Martin had no such training.
2) A SYG defense falls flat on it's face considering the police dispatcher advised Zimmerman to heel.
3) Of course, we abide the rule of law but Zimmerman disregarded #2. Is not the police dispatcher advising him not to go after the kid a lawful order?
4) Castle Law doesn't apply to this case, the kid was simply walking home from the store with Skittle's and tea. Zimmerman stalked, then confronted Martin and shot him dead. Those are the facts. All else is supposition and Zimmerman isn't a credible witness.

What do you mean that's not the law?

Here is the text of the initial call to the Police Dept.

The streets are a tough training ground.

SYG falls flat because the cops told him to forget it? Tell me how that works. He was part of a neighborhood watch. Where's the cops then?

Anyway I suppose we'll find out by and by.

Pete

Carl, thanks for that 911 report.

What stands out to me is that Zimmerman had already made up his mind this kid was trouble with no evidence except the kid's age, hoodie, and skin color.

It isn't a crime to walk through a neighborhood looking around.... Even in bad weather.

Why didn't Zimmerman wait for law enforcement to show up?

Pete, I remember reading that Zimmerman wasn't actually a part of any legitimate Neighborhood Watch Group. And, even if he was, those watch groups have strict rules about simply reporting suspicious behavior and then letting law enforcement handle it.

That is what I get from the transcript too.


Carl