The Real Problem Behind The IRS Scandal
 

The decision by agents in Cincinnati to flag groups that appeared to have a conservative ideology was "very bad," said Brett Kappel, a campaign finance lawyer at the firm Arent Fox in Washington. "But I don't think it was politically motivated; I think it's incompetence."

Because, from the very drafting of the statute, things are murky.

Blaming the administration on this one is like a mechanic being unable to accurately repair your 1956 Crown Victoria due to badly written manuals then getting mad at the current President of Ford.

The best he can do is become aware of an issue then take steps to correct it.

I would like to see that actual list of all groups that applied...were there a disproportionate amount of right wing groups? How many progressive ones?
We need to see what the talley is.

Right. See? its not anyone's fault, really. Its just the rules are hard to understand.

BULL SHIT, LA Times!! The rules are what they are quite by design, to empower the political class. The political class WANTS the donations that flow through these organizations. AND they want the donations at full value, which is why congress allows the various tax exempt groups to exist in the first place. And they don't want the IRS to be looking too closely at the money that flows through these groups.

The REAL story is that someone at the IRS actually decided to follow up on the demands of the likes of Baucus, Schummer, and some of the other village idiots in the Senate, and ad hoc a way to cast a hyper-jaundiced eye at VERY SPECIFIC groups which support VERY SPECIFIC ideas. The Times would love to believe that this was bureaucratic bungling, but all of these related events add up to far more than a coincidence.

Meanwhile, Lisa Meyers at NBC is reporting this morning that the IRS knew about this last year but specifically decided to sit on the whole thing until after the election. Brilliant!!

Jeezus H Christmas - how stupid do you have to be to even publish an article like that?!

Here's a good op-ed piece on the subject in which it asserts that the squirrelyness of the 501(c)(4) exemption makes problems such all this all but unavoidable. His recommendation?

Let’s get rid of 501(c)(4) status. Encourage nonprofits to forswear political activity and become 501(c)(3)s. If they can’t stomach political chastity, let them become 527s: groups still exempt from taxes but required to disclose their donors.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...7_story_2.html

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Is Obamacare also loose?

Government workers are as political as anyone.

Pete

Or, let's forget about tax exempt status for all of them. Easiest solution of all.

However, at least WaPo seems to be demonstrating more intelligence on this issue than the LA Times.

Mike,
The Citizen's United case sort of opened this can of worms. It has to be seen in that light. If all of a sudden there is a huge increase in groups applying for tax-exempt status then how would they (IRS) go about making sure they were legit?

The goofy part of all this is let an individual make a donation to any politician and they need your life story. So if corporations are people why not get their life story out in the open.

It is the best of both worlds for "corporations".....they can donate all they want to a campaign, but cannot be prosecuted like an individual. I mean can someone put GM or Walmart in jail? Brillantly evil....

we really need to deep six Citizen's United for the benefit of both parties and democracy.

Not only can corporations donate anonymously to the (c)(4) groups, so can foreign corporations and individuals. It becomes an effective means to launder foreign money intended for use in our domestic politics.

Money is the life blood of politics. And our boys and girls aren't going to do anything of consequence to change that, because they like things as they are.

If you're not bought and paid for from the get go, you'll never be allowed to run for anything much beyond dogcatcher.

Chas

Chicken or the egg. Which came first: the asinine IRS regs, of the opportunistic exploitation of them? If our political elite didn't create the can of worms, no one would have opened the can.

Eggzactimundo. Bidness as usual.

I feel for people that work at the IRS, we use a tax accountant because I simply would go nuts trying to fill out that mess they call the tax forms. Imagine the poor sod who has to validate them.

This^ is the solution.

The real culprit in this is Chief Justice Roberts and his merry band of brothers. When a narrow ruling would have sufficed in the Citizen's United case, Robert's sent back the agreed to compromise back to the defending lawyers and instructed them to broaden it to include corporations as people.

Religious groups, too. No more political sermonizing from the pulpit. See, we can agree on some things, Mike.

I have no problem with that. We have no need to subsidize our freedoms. ANY of them.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,4833667.story



great article

It was a Republican IRS comissoner under Ike who changed the rules, Mike. There's your elite chicken who laid the egg. Exclusively was changed to primarily by the Republicants and it was CJ Roberts (another Republicant) who sent back a narrowly crafted ruling in the Citizen's United case with the request that it be expanded to read that corporations are people.
The result being that conservative groups in overwhelming numbers flooded the IRS with 501(c)(4) during the time in question.
To add insult to injury, during the Bush/Cheney years staffing was cut back at the IRS.

No comment^? Figures...:rolleyes:

I figure that they're like cops.

Most of them are decent folks who are just trying to make a living. But whenever you're in a position of authority such as that, it doesn't take very many assholes to poison the well for everyone.

Of course, this thread isn't about the poor rank & file slob doing his job, it's about the big cheeses using their power to affect elections.

Now down here in Bugtussell, we call that political corruption. And we're even so ignorant as to think that anyone who gets caught doing it should wind up in jail.

And while we're ignorant, we're also realistic. Speaking for myself, if anyone goes to jail, it will be some poor, dumb bastard who was simply doing what he was told.

Once again, color me jaded,

Chas

Obama stole the election? That's a mighty big stretch, Chas.

Don't think you are jaded. Think you are right.

Never said that, you did.

Thought I was talking about political corruption.

Chas

Big cheeses affecting elections? Just reading between the lines, Chas.
The only corruption that I'm seeing is the use of 501(c)(4) tax exempt status to engage in politics. I don't care if it's left or right of the political spectrum. Unfortunately it's been going on since Ike's boy in the IRS in 1959 changed the law by taking exclusively to mean primarily. As to the IRS engaging in political warfare? I don't believe it happened.
What do I know, I'm just an ex roofer who probably is suffering from post traumatic heat stroke.

I thought Nixon got caught using the IRS to punish his enemies. Unacceptable then, unacceptable now.

And, to tell the truth, I'm getting too drunk to engage in any sort of a response. I was having a great deal of fun, but that is no longer the case.

Time to eat supper and go to bed. People are counting on me tomorrow.

BTW, I had the most kick ass dream last night. It morphed from reality to a R. Crumb (familiar with him) landscape, and was beginning to become the most entertaining lucid dream I've ever had...until I woke up. Then I couldn't go back to sleep.

Ever have a lucid dream? An absolute hoot!!!!

Maybe I did do too much acid whenever I was younger. Don't too much matter, I woke up and ruined it.

Chas

I agree, Chas. One little difference tho. Tricky Dick got caught red handed at it and provided the tapes that proved it. No Watergate here, my friend.
I'm on my second Modelo especial so I guess I've got some catching up to do.

Yeah, I had a very lucid, (Or, would that be lurid? Maybe both?), dream one night in the barracks. Unfortunately, my roomates heard the animal noises I was making and saw the circus tent I had erected. Then came the volcano...................

It took me two years to live that down.:o

Dave

Only time I ever dreampt in colour was when I was 10, lying in a hospital bed with a broken leg and a blood stream full of morphine.

I dream in color all the time.

Ignorant but realistic? Is that possible?


oh these scandals have died already

Morphine is some NASTY stuff. They kept me on morphine for nearly a week (IIRC) after my heart surgery. I asked for the responsible doctor and demanded to be taken off of it. Why? Because I woke up in the middle of the night thinking the room, and I, were on fire. It was so realistic, I could feel the flames burning my skin.

Why anyone would CHOOSE to get high off of something like that is beyond me.

Dave

what is the latest on the dying scandals?

What scandals?;)

Dave

They are defending the "lamestream liberal media" for all that it's worth.

I believe that was a lurid dream...was it fun???

A lucid dream is whenever you realize that it's a dream and you can control it...pretty much do anything you want. A combination of the two is an absolute hoot!!!

I was really getting a kick out of these dreams, but as soon as I started having fun with them...I quit having them.

The one I had the other night was as entertaining, and without a doubt the most creative lucid dream I've ever had. I never realized I was dreaming, but just as soon as I realized that I could do anything I wished...I woke up.

Just as well, the dog had to go outside and puke...nothing I wanted to deal with at 2:AM...of course, cleaning up dog puke is nothing I want to do at 5:AM either. But I can't blame the little dog for being sick. After all, it's belly was full of puke.

Must be my upbringing. Every time I started having fun I got my ass kicked for it. So now I can't allow myself to have any fun.

To tell the truth, I'm kind of surprised that no one else has chimed in about lucid dreams. The best I can tell, they're not THAT uncommon.

Chas

Oh, it was WAY fun. In fact, it was so fun, I'm still trying to find that chick thirty years later. Alas, I've finally come to realize she's a figment of my imagination.

Dave

I take a medicine called lopid for high tryglycerides...some say it causes lucid dreams and quit taking them....but not me

i do not mind.

Why can't you be like all the other kids and just take psilocybin?:D

I am have panic attacks at night.....and that is without the acid, lsd, shrooms.....

when i wake up from sleep apnea I feel like I cannot breath so I take a placebo of alka selzter and sudafed ( the real stuff you have to show your license for)

haven't died yet

on the ship and in Iraq it sucked...I would actually walk around the base at night in Iraq until the feeling went away