10,000+? For how long?
 

Well, it's been what, three weeks a month since the DOW rose above 10,000?

The day it poked its little head over that mark, I asked (On AK) if anyone thought it was sustainable. Most of the folks over there said "No!".
Well, it has yet to drop significantly. As a matter of fact it continues to rise, albeit slowly. Yeah, maybe I'm being impatient, but is this going to be one of those embarassing moments where somebodys doomsday predictions don't come true?

What do you guys think?

Dave

I dunno- The Dow's pretty high, but silver & gold have been doing "land-office business", too, at $1120 an ounce for gold, & $17.00 an ounce for silver-as of Friday the 13th's close...They fluctuate, too, however.

I think the Dow is inflated by the propaganda our government is feeding everyone. That and its being propped up on our tax dollars back.

IMO its bound to fail again.

The theory (or explanation) I heard was that as long as the Fed keeps interest rates at 0 people are taking U.S. dollars overseas, say Thailand and buying Thai Bhats (think that is what they call their money) getting a 4 or 5 % return and then converting it back to U.S. dollars that in the interim had been devalued so they make extra profit. None of this is helping the dollar's value but the thieves in Wall Street could care less.

Look at the Dow vs. the Dollar and there's no real mystery. As long as we keep a weak dollar policy in place the Dow will do okay.

Mojo jojo !

That is forever how I will envision you speaking your posts LOL

Wait until commercial mortgages start going into foreclosure. It's coming and it'll send the DJIA into a tailspin.

John

Somehow seems appropriate, doesn't it?

I am *right*! But yooooouuuuu.

Only in America....................Oh wait that happens in pretty much every third world country also.:rolleyes:

Yeah, I keep hearing about that one, too...They all talk about it in darkly ominous tones, like its gonna make the housing mess look like a Sunday-School picnic...Why do I think our entire financial system is basically an ill-constructed pile of pebbles, & if the ONE pebble somehow becomes dislodged, the whole thing comes a-tumblin' down, like the Walls of Jericho ?

Because it is?:rolleyes:

Bingo, Buddy !! We have a Winna...Unfortunately....(grimace..)

Well old friend I have long contended that our mortgage system was designed by thieves for thieves and I don't suppose Wall Street is any better.

Right now, it would appear to me that all of the pebbles are in motion.

Believe it or not, I'm not as negative as some of you.

The system stinks, to be sure. You can draw your conclusions from the Keynes camp, or the Ludwig von Mises camp, or from a combination of the two.

But either are economic theorys. Economic reality is that if peoples faith in the economic system fails, the system will collapse. And we're in too deep to fold.

I figure that the big boys will keep the big wheel a'spinnin". Not the 1st time that society has stared into the abyss.

Just look at the alternative.

Chas

Oh, I agree 100%, Charles. If I really was as morose about the economy as I sometimes can appear to be, would I have gone out and bought a $36,000 car a month and a half ago? No. I'm not THAT stupid. I'm a bluecollar kind of guy, but I have investments and believe it or not, am on pretty solid financial ground. Few people that I know personally have used the system as successfully as I have. The irony of it is that most of my friends who are in dire straights right now, or close to it, are Republicans. The reason they are so upset about anyone tinkering with the economy is because they are the ones who are teetering on the brink.

I don't hate capitalism, I just think it could better serve everyone, if it was used more responsibly. That if we left capitalists solely to their own devices, they would suck the system dry and leave the rest of us with nothing. And, unfortunately, only strong government can prevent that, IMHO.

Dave

The problem is that the corporations and the money people don't really want a free market. They want to manipulate the market to their advantage. An economist appearing on NPR today discussed how the Insurance companies and medical providers have essentially taken turns gaining monopoly power in the local markets to rig the price for medical services. One insurer who can deliver 60K members to a hospital can negotiate cheap services, which the hospitals make up for with the smaller insurers and individuals. To "balance the field" the medical providers consolidated and held out for the prices they wanted. The insurance companies pass that cost on to the consumers, who have no leverage.

In the Kansas City area, there are essentially two providers who control health services in the city, Health Midwest and Shawnee Mission. Whith that type of concentration, there is essentially no free market to control prices. Every year when it comes time for my firm to renew insurance, it's not whether it will cost us more, but how much more it will cost us. Because of the health history of some in the firm, no one but the present provider will take us, so we have no choice except to pay or go naked.

Regards,

D-Ray

This is one of the things that has always puzzled me. Come July 4th everyone drags out the red,white and blue bunting. They stand with hand over heart and sing the national anthem. The other 363 days it is the Balkan States of America.

I realize that States Rights are a touchy area, but are we a single nation or are we fifty states? On this very fancy form I have it concludes "that such person is admitted as a citizen of the United States of America" it says nowt about me being a citizen of Maryand.:confused:

Don't go talkin' 'bout States' Rights...WE lost a little argument over THAT one 145 years ago..

Haven't noticed any lobbyists being overly concerned with making sure that Ol' Chas gets a square deal.

Isn't corporatism grand???

Chas

Rights???????

I'll trade a "right" for a "freedom" any day.

Chas

Maybe that little girl I heard reciting the Pladge of Allegience had it right " . . . one nation invisible . . .";)

Dow at almost 10,400. Every time I see a little jump I just think it will give me a little more buffer to get out if it starts down again.

Everytime I see it rise I think, "Maybe 11,000 by Christmas, then unemployment starts dropping next spring?" Uh, there I go with that damned optimism again.

Sorry.

Dave

I'm with ya brother. Can't help it. I want this thing to turn around. Scarry watching what happend over the last two years. I got a couple of kids and would like to see them get the shot I had.

No one wants to talk about how blatantly illegal the conduct of the providers is, and that the conduct of the insurance companies in those transactions was likely illegal as well (if the courts were to determine that they had monopoly power as a result of their control of a substantial number of subscribers). Of course, Sam Walton loved to play that game too. It certainly appeared that there was some price fixing going on on Wall Streed before the market collapse as well. The crisis also resulted in a greater concentration of banks, with the big ones swallowing up other big ones. While treasury interest rates are around 1-2%, the banks are offering a 10.5% rate to their BEST customers.

The anti-trust laws have essentially been ignored for decades, but they are still on the books. I'm sure the DOJ is pretty busy with GITMO and trying to pick up the slack for the huge backlog of civil rights cases that had been ignored, but I sure would like to see a renewed focus on antitrust laws.

Regards,

D-Ray

I would imagine that everyone is in favor of a strong economy. Well, maybe not everyone, but I certainly am. I'd like to give my boys a big raise.

The Dow at 11,000? Sounds good to me. But after the tech bubble, and the housing bubble, I can't help but fear that we may see a government spending bubble next.

But I'm in, lets see another card.

Chas

I agree, but would characterize it differently. We aren't spending too much, we're just not paying enough. Less of a spending crisis than a revenue generating crisis. You can guess how I’d go about fixing that.

There are those who have said democracy will ultimately fail because sooner or later the voters discover they have the keys to the cookie jar. (I do love a good mixed metaphor) It’s looking more and more like we’re getting there. Lower taxes, then lower taxes. After that, we need a tax cut. We’re not the most responsible lot. And if anyone were stupid enough to run on a “we need to pay the bills” ticket, I’d not count their chances of getting elected as very high.

I'm not sure as to what this GITMO thing really is. Just how long does it take to have a trial?

Perhaps GITMO and things like it are simply the ruse, keep everyone's attention focused on the left hand, so that they don't notice what the right hand is, or isn't doing.

Chas

I probably shouldn't have mentioned GITMO in this context. My point is that the DOJ has criminal and civil jurisdiction to pursue price-fixing and other monopolistic behavior, and for years, corporations have been getting a wink and a nod instead of enforcement.

Regards,

D-Ray

Bingo, Chas!

Just like this stupid "Terrorists on American Soil" hysteria. So long as they're kept inside the penitentiary----who in their right mind gives a shit? It's just another scare tactic.
"OOOooooo! You're not letting terrorists molest my kids, Obama!!!" Please.:rolleyes:

Now, the civil trial thing does complicate things. And I agree it is bullshit. (IMO, they should have been shot on the battlefield.) But what most people don't understand or aren't being told is that the millitary tribunal was already attempted and shot down-----by the millitary JAG Corp itself, during the Bush Administration. But, to whom is all blame being assigned for this as well?:rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, Obama has made some decisions that have me scratching my head. But, I'm just being objective. He is not entirely to blame for all of this mess.

Dave

We're getting way off topic, again.

Dave

In fact there was a proposition on the recent ballots in the states of Maine and Washington along the lines of California's Prop 13. It was rejected by the voters because they figured it would lead to failing infrastructure.

There may be hope after all. Now if Congress has the cojones to let the Bush tax cut die a quiet death . . .

If this happens I'll be convinced there is some hope. Not holding my breath. The Republicans go on and on when it's some spending they don't want. "We can't afford it? Where will the money come from?" Watch the hypocrites when this comes up. "How could you raise taxes?!"

Well when you've respond to an inability to pay your bills by accepting lower pay, you just let all of your loans default and file bankrupcy, right? Then quit buying the tools you need to do your job to save money. Then when you get fired for not being able to do your job, (Due to the lack of tools.), you blame all of the people who were "stupid enough" to loan you all of this money in the first place, and say, "Well, I guess I'll just go live in the woods the way a truly rugged individual would. 'Cuz this modern economics thing is just a big BS dependency scheme. Real men live off of the land, anyhow! Hoorah!!!!!!!"

Isn't that how it works?

Dave

I think the Republicans are suffering from PMS.


PMS = Pi** and Moan Syndrome.:)

Wow Dave, I think that might be pretty much it. When you move to the woods, don't forget to take your Plasma TV (from Wal-Mart and made in China). Otherwise you won't be able to watch The Howard Beale Hour on Fox News.

I got your point the first time, I suppose my response wasn't very plain.

It was a round about way of saying that the DOJ doesn't want to go after the corporations. No one in Washington has the will to go after their sugar daddies.

Chas

Will? It is the first time I have heard them called that.:D

I'm thinking class action then. The only problem is that most of the experienced anti-trust lawyers are business lawyers. Private anti-trust litigation is most often business against business, with both sides wanting more control of the market. In this case the greatest harm is to the consumers. I would love to see the fat cats pay.

Regards,

D-Ray