2nd Amendment in 1930s Germany?
 

Here's a question for ya;

Who thinks 2nd Amendment firearm ownership rights would have stopped the Nazi march to power in 1930s Germany? You know, they way anti-gun control zealots seem to claim it would have.

I think it's a ridiculous notion. But, I'll let you guys go first.

Dave

I don't think so, simply because so many power centers in Germany supported him during his rise to power.

They thought he'd be a puppet. Dupes all.

Pete

Heck, our 2nd Amendment didn't stop Obama from coming to power and the wingnuts insist he's as bad as Hitler.

Paper tiger.

The second amendment would not have done anything. Germans were unemployed and Hitler had a job creation program, namely war.

Sounds familiar.

Afghanistan? WW2? Vietnam? Korea? Tell us!!

;)

Pete

And remember that not every German agreed with Hitler or the war. My German grandfather served and hated it. He was an opera singer at heart, not a submariner. My German grandmother said that villagers hated it when the German soldiers came into town because they raided the farms for food.

The front line of war sucks, but the view from the assembly line ain't bad.

There are supporters on this board telling me. They say if we cut the military budget then people will lose their jobs.

It's that subtle. It's typical politics from our perspective. It's not like we are shooting each other over the war on terror, or the war on drugs, or the war on whatever that serve as an excuse for someone's job.

Tea Party on the right.
Moral equivalency on the left or middle.

I do not agree with Pete on many things but the longer I am here the more I know he has read up on things and generally knows what he is talking about.

Which still leaves me flabbergasted. I can't envision Hitler supporting gay marriage or cutting the military budget and I'm pretty sure his stance on Civil Rights would be something other than liberal, to say the least.........:confused:

Pete accused me of playing the "Nazi card" a little while ago. I had spent a couple hours the previous day reading posts and doing battle on a wingnut site (www.breakingobama.com) arguing about the Holocaust. It seems that Obama the Nazi is trying to take our guns so's he can stuff us into the cattle cars and exterminate us in FEMA camps......:rolleyes:

At one point a self described Tea Party member bemoaned, "...the class of people joining the (TP) movement."

I predict self destruction.

Anyhow, I don't believe that, at any point, would nearly unrestricted private gun ownership, a la the USA, have prevented the rise of the Third Reich. If anything, it may have exacerbated the problem as Germanys wingnuts would have caught onto the patriotic fervor and flagwaiving horseshit and become a part of the problem. (As they apparently did?);)

Regards,
Dave

That's right.

Dave

Namely their defense industry and military. They recognized his love of all things military and unwavering patriotism. Figured that under this guy, they'd get whatever they wanted. Turns out they got way more than that. And so did the rest of the world. Unfortunately.

Regards,
Dave

I agree with you 100 percent Dave. But the example you are using is perhaps not the best. He gained control though democratic means by winning in the Reichstag a plurality ( I can't remember if it was a majority I could be wrong) in 1933. Then he convinced Hindenberg to appoint him Chancellor and he then took complete control. In other words the German people elected him and then he subverted Democracy after he became Chancellor. He did not really rise to power against the will of the people since he was elected.

I hate people even implying that American presidents past or present dead or alive Republican or Democrat are anything similar to Hitler.

The problem is we're nothing like tween war Germany.

My apologies Dave, I feel like I jumped the gun on that one. We were just discussing Schicklegruber in another thread and I was overly sensitive, as rust belt righties tend to be :)

'Dolphie didn't have any problems with homosexuality on the down low for sure, but that would be the classical mold of perfect soldier. He needed babies to feed into his machine.

He was progessive in one way - to get those babies he encouraged German girls to bang away.

Ice thanks, I've fooled another one ;) You can completely believe me when I say Obama is the antichrist :D

EB, social worker, or weapons engineer? I have no problems cutting the military right now, at least the small amount considered.

Pete

The Church backed him too.

Pete

oK

by the way your plan about dying a year early to save Medicare is great...
you first lol;)

There's a disconnect here.

The original question was whether a second amendment would have prevented Hitler's reign. I merely think it would not have. Citizens are simply too well behaved to shoot each other over political differences. They have to be pushed pretty hard to start shooting back at their own government and, since that is the way they behave, the second amendment has no net effect on reigning in government.

Yes, I know. In fact this is what I am pointing out.

Yes, we have gotten a bit off track (as usual). I don't believe it would have either. The one thing the German example, and others, shows is that you can't necessarily depend on the military to turn on the government. Soldiers follow orders. And the military is a department of the government after all. That's where the military paychecks and all associated bennies come from.:rolleyes:

And, honestly, I think that, even here, if it came right down to it most of these NRA blowhards would hand over weapons with little more than a whimper. At the end of the day, they'll start worrying about how ending up dead or in jail would impact their families and so on. Oh, there'd be some, but not enough to make much difference.

Remember what Uncle Ted bellowed last year? Well, where is it? Is he "dead or in jail". So full of shit................:rolleyes:

The cat is out of the bag, it isn't 1790 anymore and the government has amassed far more deadly weapons and vast networks of military, intelligence and law enforcement agencies...........and everyone knows it. Hell, that's a big part of what all the fuss is about. Is anyone dumb enough to think Uncle Sam isn't watching for potential insurrectionists and making contingency plans? Who is it that decides who is an insurrectionist and who isn't? Your local Tea Party zealots? Oh, spare me, please.

Regards,
Dave

Meh.

The 2A as valid government opposition has been moot since 1865, when everyone had the same guns.

The very idea that John Q. could oppose our government's military for greater than 15 seconds (ten of which would be the big guns laughing uncontrollably) is farcical.

A lot of people like him because he projected effectively the argument that Germany was stabbed in the back (WW1) by the twin evil of Jews and the Bolsheviks.
. The Jews even if they were armed would not be effective since they were spread throughout Germany. A people armed in a particular area if their numbers are sufficient can put up some resistance.

Anti semitism had a very large receptive audience in Germany especially after WW1.

So your point is a well armed populace would not rise up and revolt against tyranny imposed from above, using Nazi Germany as your example. I can see that point. So arguments like having unlimited access to semi-automatic weapons in order to fight against a tyrannical Federal government is downright silly because at the end of the day the Feds would win since a well paid national military is on their side. Well maybe that is true but I have faith that our government and nation will never get to that point.

We could point to present day Syria as a point against your argument.However, the United States has a pretty good record of not opening fire on peaceful demonstrators, is a representative democratic republic that allows for the peaceful transfer of power, and is a bastion of religious and civilian liberty. We are not Assad's Syria or Nazi Germany.

"Well maybe that is true but I have faith that our government and nation will never get to that point."

Me too. But there seems to be a right many people who seem to believe we are reaching that point and that the time for peaceful demonstration is passing. Good luck to them. I think they are stupid and stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting anywhere with it, but...............well, there you have it.

Dave

Ask any Air Force pilot in an A10 Warthog what they think of that idea. A target rich enviroment is probably what they would say. They don't mind being shot at with small arms, it just shows them where to drop the napalm or cluster bombs on their next pass. Caveat, small arms being anything under 20mm.:eek:

Hmmm Bob
what country defeated a massive Air Force and Army while black pajamas and carrying AK-47s;):D

air power is not everything. It usually just makes the enemy more determined to win in the long run

Actually the North Vietnamese had a modern army that wore regular uniforms....the Viet Cong wore the black pajamas


well
in the movie Green Berets they did I think...such an accurate portrayal of the War.:rolleyes:

1). In the jungle against an Army trained and equipped to fight in a conditions more like Europe or North America. McArthur and Ike both warned against getting too heavily involved in S.E. Asia. Turns out they were right, just as Ike was right about the MIC.

2). Speaking of Nazis..........I'd say air superiority pretty much did them in. The Japanese too.

Dave

Pissant teabaggers ain't nothing like those guys. I'm an asshole, I would use tactical nukes on 'em. Teabaggers that is.:rolleyes:;)

I respectfully disagree. It was the forces of the Allied troops who invaded France on D-Day from the West and the Red Army from the East. Not to dismiss our air power, but I think the troops on the ground are usually what will win wars like that. Of course the Russian winters hurting their supply lines to the Eastern Front was a big help.

of course
been to any good Tea Bagger Soup kitchens?
now that pho is damn good:)

I think those two nukes did the Japanese in Dave. Well I guess that is air power.

You're trash talking the Vietnamese in Westminster, Ca.? :rolleyes:

Even those guys shy away from the Tea Party, way too effin' crazy even for them.;)

:D

Regards,
Dave

Hiroshima today.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...6yTWbfCt2idILX

NO!
I am just saying that the Tea Party has not contributed any decent cuisine to the nation as of yet. Now I used to eat PHO all the time but it is not really healthy to eat it every day...

The military turned in Egypt.

We simply don't know what it's going to look like when we finally fail.

Pete

We are not going to fail Pete.

I don't mean soon, but eventually it becomes a certainty.

Pete

Like entropy?

well I guess everything will be over with by then lol

Well, "eventually" we all die. "Eventually" the sun will swell and burn the earth to a cinder. "Eventually"....................:rolleyes:

Dave