C4c
 

damaged the enviroment?

"......

According to the Automotive Recyclers Association (ARA), almost 100% of a vehicle can be recycled. Even the fluids can be reused, according to the ARA. Transmission and brake fluids, anti-freeze, oil, gasoline, diesel and Freon from air conditioners are harvested at scrap yards for use in other vehicles. However, still-functioning engines are the most valuable part of a scrapped car. The engine itself takes the most amount of energy and resources to manufacture, so car companies reap both an environmental and cost benefit from being able to recycle engine parts.

Many of the cars that were traded in during Cash for Clunkers were perfectly functioning cars in good condition, and excellent candidates to have their engines and other parts recycled. With the engine destroyed, many clunkers bypassed the recycling companies and went straight to junkyards to be crushed and shredded.

.......

Cars that are shredded are turned into small, palm-sized pieces of metal, which is then sold to manufacturers as raw material. The shredded material can be turned back into car parts, or heavy machinery, steel plates, railroad tracks among other products. For each ton of metal recovered by a shredding facility, roughly 500 pounds of shredder residue are produced, meaning about 3 to 4.5 million tons of shredder residue is sent to landfills every year.


.........

The Department of Transportation reported that Cash for Clunkers was an environmental success. .......

"

.-.-.-.-.-.-.

http://www.emagazine.com/blog/the-ca...kers-conundrum

Pete

That does it! Obama has to go! Impeachment now!!!

John

Finally!

:D

Pete

Sorry Pete no third rate burgulary here:)

Keep dreaming lol

I hate C4C. Middle class benefits at the expense of the poor. And their bs cover was false to boot.

Notice that's a greenie site.

Pete

It was an effort to stimualte the economy by encouraging the purchase of new automobiles. Some of those middle class people who work at the dealerships may have been saved from becoming poor because of the extra car sales...............

art of the possible Pete.

The gas mileage of the American fleet has improved and we are now exporting gasoline. Cars for Cash was one of the tools used to accomplish that.

Regards,

D-Ray

Generalize much? So what if it's a greenie site? Doesn't mean we liberals line up drooling to get behind them. That would be like saying all righties are acolytes of the unlamented Breitbart...oops bad analogy.:rolleyes::p

;)On the Cash fer Clunkers program, the Ford dealer I went to told me that I couldn't trade my F250 5.8L in for a new V6 Ranger. I had to buy an F150 or bigger. WTF?!?! True story. My F250 is still out there spewing and I bought a used V6 Ranger from the gas co. made in the midwest USA from parts made in god knows where. Too bad it doesn't run on CNG.
So, they didn't want your lard assed Lincoln Town Car, either. Eh, Pete?:)LOL.

Yes, yes, now everything is an "attack on the poor".......... And this coming from the party that has been talking trash about "the poor" for decades. Rightwing pundits running their mouths day and night, telling us we shouldn't have any empathy for the poor because they "......did it to themselves.", blah, blah, blah...on and on---ad nauseum. The current crop of Republicans are a bunch of Randian Objectivist dicks who don't give a flying f**k about the poor, never have and ever will. So, spare us this BS.

Regards,
Dave

Probably why Les Miz is enjoying a revival, that shining city on the hill did not last very long and we are heading right back to the feudal era.:rolleyes:

C4C hurt the poor. It took the cheap cars off the road, and greatly lowered the amount of used parts available. Keeping that old Lincoln running (Bob I won't buy a new car anyway ;)) I do have reason to see this.

So, subsidize the middle class at the expense of the poor.

And damage the enviroment anyway?

Dave the Dem machine here has kept a pretty nice boot on Cleveland's poor folks necks. As long as the votes come in.

Pete

Don't fret, there will be plenty more dumb-ass ideas coming down the pike from "do-gooders" in this administration.

But remember how effectively the concept was sold. Breaking a window is never good economically and anyone with a modicum of knowledge knows it despite what the local glazer may claim.

Terms like "dumb ass" do not become you lol....it makes you lose that civilized libertarian veneer;)

Where have you been broken windows have been running this economy since after WW II...have you not heard of built in obsolecence?

Your argument might have some validity if Cash For Clunkers removed all or most of the affordable used cars from the market, even temporarily. It didn't.

As for used parts, some were generated by the program. Can you establish that the market could have absorbed more?

Did it damage the environment? I don't know. Even if there was some level of pollution generated in the process of recycling the cars, when balanced against the reduction in polluting vehicles on the road, was it still a net negative?

Knee-jerk wingnuttery.

John

Breaking a window or crashing a car or getting sick or even dying generates economic activity. That's just a fact. Glaziers, body and fender men, doctors and undertakers make money.

And then they spend it.

John

If energy is escaping through the existing window, and more effective windows are available to more efficiently insulate the house, the old window will likely need to be broken in order to install the new one.

Regards,

D-Ray

Typical Republican. "Oooooh! Save that old single pane window, we can use it forever and never have to spend money on a new one!"

Then he can't figure out why the local window factory sits empty, no longer creating any jobs. "Must of been something the treehuggers did........ Meh, who cares? Those people had it too good anyways. F**k'em."

I know, a grossly oversimplified scenario. But, really not far off the mark. Stop spending money.....no demand....no jobs. Trust me, no one, no where runs a factory just to fill up warehouses.

Regards,
Dave

Speaking of windows, when they did the new roof back in 2009 they also changed the skylight to a low E one. We also changed the patio doors in 2010 to ones with low E glass. It did wonders for the heating and cooling costs.

forgive me but I somehow missed out on the Great Shortage Of Auto Parts For The Poor under Emperor Obama's First Reign.....

your kidding right Pete?

John I went shopping for a cheap used car in early '10. The pickins were mighty slim. And used car prices have definately gone up overall.

Ice, no. The local pullaparts are still coming back to their own hereabouts.

Pete

I do not know what your definition of cheap is....I am employed and thus can afford a reasonably priced car. Right now across the street from where I work on base there is used car lot with a Honda 2010 with 36,000 miles on it...a steal (well I would call it that for a almost new Honda) at the $13,600 they are asking for it. And if you want a cheaper one...say a really used one for say $1000 there is always CL and friends...
I do not think there is a shortage of used cars....

It's exactly the $1000 cars I was talking about. Not many poor folks can afford a $13k car.

Pete

I guess if you get extremely lucky you can find something for $1000 that actually will run for a while. I have a friend here who does find these older imports like Honda and Mitsubishi for 1500-2000 bucks but they are all older and have been used. But he gets them through friends,etc. But to be honest your post is the first time I have heard of a shortage of used cars tied to cash for clunkers. In fact given the cirumstances of are fragile economic recovery there should be an abundance of used cars since people cannot afford them like before....

It was worse a little while back. I have good friends from way back before I 'made' it (although I still don't buy $13k cars! :)), some of their kids wheel and deal in cheap cars, for a while there they had a very hard time down in the lowest range. Not a shortage exactly, but to some degree, and prices went up, of course.

Btw, their preferences run to old civics or dodge dakotas :)

Pete

A perceived shortage, a misconception fostered by people who used Cash For Clunkers to inflate the price of what they were selling. Most people driving $1,000 cars can't afford to buy new cars, no matter what program is being offered. Twenty grand for a new car is still twenty grand. People driving $1,000 cars trade them for $5,000 cars.

John

Someone driving a clean low mile 1989 k car since new would possibly sell it for a few bucks, or trade it in for $2500-4500 under the program. It lowered the amount of used cars available.

I've been buying used cars from old folks as my daily drivers for a while...

Here's a shot of some c4c trade ins.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Co...kers-10a_2.jpg

Pete

See any thousand dollar cars there?

Btw, I was surprised that an old v6 Dakota is one of the hood hustlers go tos for trucks. You'd think F150 or 1500, etc.

Sadly I'm not surprised about the old Civics.

Pete

They were obviously worth less than $2500, or perhaps less than 4500.

Pete

It was my experience in past years that a $1000 dollar car was no bargain, repairs would generally eat your lunch. Whereas our his and hers 2000 Impala LSs are running fine even though 12 years old.

My experience doesn't match yours. I'm presently driving a '91 Pontiac 6000 wagon. I bought it for $800.00 about ten years ago. A used computer ($100.00), tires, brakes, oil changes, and exhaust system. Everything works.
Pete and I seem to be on the same page here.

and a brand spankin' new Bushmaster that set you back more than the car did.

Weeeeeellllll John my luck hasn't been very good lately, but it was my own fault. I probably could've found a clean old Crown Vic (if any of them weren't c4c'd) but no, I had to get all fancy with the Town Car. Again though it was my fault, and here it is almost 3 years later and I'm still driving it.

A friend had a 91 Bonneville, it was a GREAT car. I'd drive the 6000 for sure.

I can see why some folks buy new cars and if you get lucky like Rob can be good to you. Heck my dad doesn't even change his own oil anymore.

That said if I had to pay 10-15-20k or more on a car I'd probably choke :eek:

The old Civics the 'kids' drive are amazing. Hey I complimented Mr Honda :) Seriously, they buy them looking ragged out with 300k miles and drive them forever, good on gas, fun to drive.

Pete

I have no Bushmaster, don't need one.;)

(How did we get from cars to guns? Smoke screens?)

There should be a shitload of Crown Vics since the cops are all offloading them for Chargers. 'Course the police package ones are a little shy on amenities.

John

Being poor is expensive. (And very unhealthy.)

I see them everyday. Poor people from the Section 8 housing walking to do their grocery shopping at 7-11, where the prices are much higher. (And the food is mostly junk.)

Public transportation is slow and you can only bring back what you can carry, necessitating multiple trips.

Regards,
Dave

Geez Louise! Weren't you out test driving a new Jaguar recently? Maybe you were just jerking some car salesman around?:rolleyes: Do you smoke a pipe?

John, yeah there's a lot of late model Vics out there. Not only stripped but usually beat, the coppers don't worry too much about them. If I didn't mind a cop car (the Grand Marquis is bad enough, at night I see headlights dropping all the time :)) I'd look for a detective or city car.

I spoke to a cop about the newer cars. He loves the power of the hemi Chargers but miss the Vics for size and durability.

Bob, I was driving a friends Jag....

Dave agreed. Although in the old neighborhoods you can often walk to an old fashioned corner store, where various store owner stereotypes come to life! :D

Pete