Anthropogenic Climate Change
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
Let's discuss fouling our nest.:(

Give us the rundown on best solutions.

When I look around Detroit I see the poisonous environmental effects of Keynsian economics mixed with laissez-faire capitalism. That recipe has chewed up a lot of green space as the suburbs and new tech grow out from the city center. Meanwhile the city has been left to decay.

The left seems to be focused on regulating carbon cost as a solution. IMO that just creates an artificial ceiling that can be lifted, for a fee to the market holders, anytime we need jobs. Carbon regulation would be a modern spin on the old tax for moving goods.

Beano?:D

hehe. Here's to your Thanksgiving Eve buzz. :D

Jim Beam and lemonade! Yeah, I'm a pansy unless it's some Woodford's or the like.:)

Heineken on this end. :D

Did you catch TD's post on AK about unions? It is near the end of the Hostess thread.

I like the way he thinks. He seems like a Reagan Democrat from 1980s era Detroit.

How about requiring Georgia Pacific to replant the stripmined western forests on Federal land. Coniferous forests sequester carbon at an amazing rate and we always need more 2x4's.

Tell us more about the situation and/or give us a link or two.

Forestry companies used to show us advertisements with hotties in hard hats replanting saplings. Were the ads deceptive? :D

Of course those ads were utterly cynical bullshit:confused:. Wiki-up clear cutting to start.

I would like to see Georgia Pacific and their compadres be required to mitigate the damage that they've done on public lands back to the date of their incorporation or whenever they started harvesting publically owned timber.;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearcutting

I just r-click whatever verbiage I'm interested in and search with Google, almost every first link is wikipedia. But you prob already know this..:)

I looked at wiki.

The clearcutters argue that they are providing a benefit. Now that forest management is improved there are fewer forest fires that make natural clearings for wildlife. Clear cutting replaces the goodness of forest fires.

They also say that clear cutting is no more harmful than tornadoes or landslides.

Beat that, greanie beanie. :D

Convince Republican voters to bear down on their job creators. That's the nature of politics.

Tort, my redneckian friend.:eek:

You have to sell your position. Simply sending people to wiki won't work. Wiki is the neutral ground that both parties write. You have to sell beyond that by saying things that 1) appeal to common sense and 2) have never been written before.

Don't go plagiarist on us now. That would be ironic and mess will come back to taunt you like a French knight, you kanigget. :D

http://youtu.be/A8yjNbcKkNY

Dang! I certainly thought my "tort" response was about as succinct as a non-barrister could be...:D

What did you mean with "tort"? It went over my head so I ignored it.

Redress of damages is how I meant it. No French in my tree, mostly knot headed krauts.:)

OK. I understand now.

How were you damaged? You asked for a corporation to replant federal land. You do not own that land, do you?

It's more along the lines of a demand. Asking corporations and others to use public resources responsibly is a fools errand. As a citizen I happen to believe that indeed I am a partial owner and have a stake in it. Legal fictions, aside.

That's great. Rednecks feel the same. A lot of them cried when the Gulf disaster happened. A lot of rednecks in Michigan are angry about invasive species messing up the fishing grounds that they love.

Liberals and rednecks might have something in common, e.g. a love of nature. Maybe liberal voters and redneck voters would do good to remind each other about a thing called the "tragedy of the commons".

Liberals are already on board with that. Rednecks, on the other hand - let's call them teabaggers - have been propagandized to believe that any talk of the commons is "creeping soci@lism". Moreover, they have a dominionist's view of exploiting nature that would set them squarely against most efforts to preserve the commons through regulation and/or prohibitions of use. Their attitudes and their behavior are precisely the "tragedy" to which you refer.

John

That's too many big words. You lost my redneck ass.

No, I won't.

John

Whut? :confused:

Meaning I won't "lose" you. You're more than perspicacious enough to apprehend what I'm attempting to put forward and, should it suit your fancy, to formulate a cogent and provocative rejoinder. :D

John

PS: should have said, "No, I didn't."

Perspicacious with a periscope, IMO.:D

I'm trying to understand what you guys are saying but in all honestly it seems like a backhanded compliment.

Rednecks are good people and they care about the environment. In fact they are the only people I have come across in the field and feeding data back to state departments of natural resources.

What value do you see in making provocation of their love of nature? They are not drama queens.

You see? I told you! Yes, it is a compliment.

I think your choice of the term might be inapt, though. I take you to mean hunters, fishermen or outdoorsmen, right? I doubt very much that the majority of these people think of themselves as people some might call rednecks.

John

Boreas,

Where are you coming from now? It seems like you are playing word games. Whether you call them hunters, fishermen, outdoorsmen, whatever, they are the first line of feedback to state DNRs.

Be an example and make a genuine effort to see their inner beauty. Blowing sunshine up my ass does no good.

Ed, I'm an avid fisherman and my neck is indeed red from the many hours working in the sun. That doesn't make me a redneck in the literal sense. I can only speak for myself but perispicacious with a periscope was an allusion to your obvious smarts and sometimes round about way of getting at things. No ill feelings intended.
As to being for the environment it doesn't mean to my mind closing it off to human use. I want the thing to be husbanded for the future. Here in the desert we have some dickish folk who think they are entitled to off road everything into the ground and tear it up where ever they feel. The land doesn't heal very fast. That needs to stop. In California, the pendulum has swung to some absurd extremes of protecting every little thing because mining and logging interests have striped and pillaged for too long. I'm confident that cooler heads will prevail eventually.

As a fisherman I'm all for upholding the game laws, poachers beware. I would rat out anyone I saw taking overlimits or undersized catches or protected species.

Being green has different connotations and your jesting comment about me being a green weenie got you a redneckian tag back, no big deal. I think you may be a little too prickley but far from a true redneck, IMO. Redneck usually means racist to most folk BTW.

10-4

I am prickly. So are you. That's why we are here on PC and not AK.

Okay......

It's gone now......

CQ..... CQ..... CQ...... over.....

There....... No, it's gone.



I'm agreeing with you, Ed. I just think the term "redneck", which you introduced into the conversation, is an inapt descriptor. People other than so-called rednecks revere, observe, study and use the outdoors. I'm one of them. So is Pat. Moreover, the term redneck has certain negative connotations that sort of prejudice a conversation or a point of view. That's all I'm saying.

John

Agreed!:o Peace, mang.:) Can we agree that Boreas is a wordy sumbitch with a thesaurus stuck.... well, you get the picture?:D BTW I spend a goodly amount of time over at AK, too.

Just for fun and giggles:

It should.

John

Tragedy of the Commons...

Georgia Pacific owned forests are not stripped bare. Lands under the US forest Service are. More Americans trust the Nature Conservancy to manage land held in common than the US Forest Service or BLM.

Go figure..

AGWarming is highly overrated. To start with -- reducing the science of climatology to one silly-ass number like "Global Mean Surface Temperature" demeans the complexity of the problem. We were farther ahead in understanding the climate driving influences when we studied individidual climate drivers like the Atlantic MultiDecadenal Oscillation and the Total Solar Irradiance and understood that the Earth has MULTIPLE climate zones that all react differently to the same amount of increased radiative forcing. Just like the Arctic response we see today.

Attempts to pkg this pitch for mass consumption by using GLOBAL numbers and GLOBAL models are just mucking up the science.

"Redneck" may have negative connotations among those who aren't, but it's a lot like the "N" word- there's nothing negative about it amongst those who is.

You know why I love redneck jokes?

Because there is truth in humor.;)

Regards,
Dave

That's why the Obama jokes are funny too.

Any examples that you find particularly funny?

Sure, but they might be copyrighted, so I'll refer you to Google. You'll know the particularly funny ones, because they'll be some truth in them.