"The Men who Built America"
 

Anybody else watching this History Channel series? Just saw the first one which covers Vanderbilt, Scott, and Rockefeller. Next up, Carnegie and Frick.

So, far it's pretty good. It points out the accomplishments and valuable contributions of these men, but doesn't gloss over the fact that they could also be extremely ruthless tyrants. ( I wonder if they'll bring up Fords interactions with the Nazi Party?)

Those of you who've conversed with me here for a while know I absolutely hate the deification of historcal figures. I want the whole picture, warts and all. Some people these days can't handle knowing their heros were imperfect human beings.:rolleyes:

Anyhow, I was just curious to see if anyone else is watching.

Regards,
Dave

I caught a little bit of it tonight, Vanderbilt. I'm sure it'll be around and around and around again. I would be happy if they dug him and his cohorts bodies up and threw 'em in a burn barrel with a road flare or two but then I've been drinking. I've read too much about the Gilded Age probably. Start the bonfire with Jay Goulds sorry ass.

Cheers, Bob

The only thing different about the old Gilded age and the coming Gilded age is that the wealthy felt some obligation to give a little back to the commons. Libraries, schools, charitable foundations, museums, etc... I don't see Romney or any of the 1% doing that today.

I will probably watch the series on Uverse On Demand.

Google "Romney charitable donations" and tell us what you find.

Do the same for Bill Gates.

You may find this interesting... http://www.businessweek.com/interact...dual_2008.html

I started to watch and then spit out my drink when that crazy coot from GE showed up.

The series is just election propaganda similar to Atlas Shrugged II. Note that it ends Nov. 3.

Here is an excerpt from the show summary:
We are supposed to believe that America was a failure until those assholes came along? Puh-leaze.

The History Channel is an A&E property and A&E is a joint venture of Disney/ABC and Hearst Corp.

We did approach Gates asking for help with Covenant House. Wegot told to get lost. Seems CH is not in Africa.

Yeah, Im aware of that. When Romney actually "creates" as many jobs as Carnegie or Vanderbilt did and pays more taxes, by percentage, than I do............then he might get some respect from me. Until then, he can go f--k himself.

I like Bill Gates quite a bit more than Romney. Gates and his wife do a lot to support public education.

I don't like Romney at all and his Randian Objectivist running mate even less.

Regards,
Dave

Here is what I found on Romney for 2011:

1. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints: $4,781,000
2. Brigham Young University: $525,000
3. The United Way: $177,000
4. Right to Play: $111,500
5. The George W. Bush Library: $100,000
6. Operation Kids: $85,000
7. Center For Treatment of Pediatric MS: $75,000
8. Harvard Business School: $70,000
9. City Year: $65,000
10. Deseret International: $50,000
Weber State University: $50,000

Tithing to the Mormon church is not charity it is a requirement to keep his position, as a bishop, in the church. Plus, these "charitable" donations are tax deductible in most cases. Money out to make you look good; money right back in in the form of tax deductions. Even more disgusting if you consider he pays half the tax rate that I do.

Mittens charitable donations are pretty minuscule considering he claims he is worth $250 million which is a joke. If we actually saw all his tax returns I bet you would find he is a billionaire that does the good American thing and hides his money offshore.

There are some very good wealthy people out there that have pledged to give most of their money to charity.

http://nonprofit.about.com/gi/o.htm?...ingpledge.org/

That is a good list but not very long.

Funny thing is a banner ad for Chinese made Levis popped up on top of the page when I opened it.

I give to charity and I volunteer some of my time to help folks that do not have it as good as I do. I wonder if Mittens would like to help me feed the people, down on their luck, Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner this year, at the Salvation Army. I doubt he would return my call.

Bill Gates, we can save that discussion for a time when I have more time. Sure, he is very wealthy, but how did he get there.

I just read through his and his better half's charitable donations. It seems international concerns get the most money. He has an interest in building international markets for his crap operating system. To answer your obvious question I do not run any micro$lop software and never will.

GET YOUR CRAPPY WINDOZE 8 UPGRADE FOR ONLY $300.00. IT IS MUCH BETTER THAN THE OLD CRAPPY WINDOZE 7. SORRY WE FICKED YOU WITH VISTA. DAMN KIDS.

Oh, you mean the guy who sees halving the size of a great company and leaving enough unemployed in his wake to populate a small country as "success"? His mere existence and standing in the business community is evidence of just how ass backwards twisted the American business model has become. We lionize and seek to emulate those who destroy and disenfranchise thousands in the name of creating excessive wealth for a relative handful.

Yeah, THAT'S a sure path to a bright future......................:confused::rolleyes:

Regards,
Dave

Venture capitalists generally consider closing a company a failure.

Pete

Bain doesn't.

John

Eh. Companies are to make a profit.

Pete

"I love to fire people.................." Mitt Romney.

Regards,
Dave

At any cost? If corporations are people then perhaps they should be held to the same moral imperatives as people are.

An excellent series IMHO. They did a great job in depicting both the bad and the good of the robber-barrons. It also demonstrated the competition that existed between the participants. Overall, JD, Scott, and CV all contributed immensely to America. The significance must be compared to what was happening in other countries and how America fit in with the entire industrial revolution. I'm most certain that a lot of people benefitted by having cheaper and more readily available fuel to provide light and heat. Moreover, wothout the timely industrial growth, would America been able to eclipse Britain and then the directed might of Germany during the next century?

Yep, I agree. I can't deny the contributions made. So long as they are portrayed as they were and not as some twisted sort of heaven-sent soldiers of God, (Some of them actually saw themselves in that way.), I'll enjoy it. We'll see how they handle the story of Henry Clay Frick and his battles with labor. If they attempt to elevate that crazy bastard any higher than he deserves and demonize the workers.....I'm done. If they portray it as it was, GREAT!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Clay_Frick

I remember reading that he once claimed that men such as himself had been endowed by "...none less than the Almighty...." with the intelligence and drive to rule over "...lesser men...". And that any attempt to challenge that authority is an attempt to thwart the will of God.:rolleyes:

Regards,
Dave

Hmm, was that the same almighty who taught us to love our neighbours as ourselves?

I just saw the next episode last night. I think they did a good job in their depiction of Frick and the Pinkertons. Does labor have the right to block access to private property? I can see why labor protested, but I also can understand why Frick brought in the Pinkertons.

Did Frick have a right to treat people like s**t? No. So, I don't really care about his rights. He forfeited them with his rotten ideology and abuses. What comes around, goes around. When you treat people like that, you deserve what you have coming..............It's called Karma, my friend.

Regards,
Dave

There's no question he was a first class prick.

I admit that was an emotional response from me. You have to remember, I grew up in the "Steel Valley" surrounded by blue collar people who were personally involved in similar battles later, through the 20th century. So, I do carry that bias.

Legally, I believe he had a right to protect his property.

However, I also understand that some of the practices he used were fairly common in those days and the idea that "If you don't like working here, go elsewhere." doesn't work when it's everywhere you go....and perfectly legal for a man like Frick to behave as he did. That's when people get frustrated, fed up and begin to step outside the law to address their issues. Unfortunate, but true.

I recall an old timer once telling me, "When I went down to the mills in the twenties, you were told to check you're brain at the door, keep your mouth shut and do as you're told. And, boy howdy, did they mean it."

Take that however you like.

Regards,
Dave