Katherine Ebon writing for fortune magazine blows Issa's investigation up
 

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.co...iid=SF_F_River

Fortune magazine is hardly a left wing publication. Ebon has published an article that basically says ATF agents did not provide any guns to the straw buyers, did not facilitate smuggling guns across the border, and were stymied by prosecutors who claimed the were no laws broken when eighteen year olds, with clean records, bought multiple guns. Get it, our gun control laws are so lax prosecutors felt it was a waste of time to seek convictions of the straw buyers working for the Mexican drug cartels. She also points out that the guns were not "tracked" ATF agents only had the serial numbers of the weapons.

There was finally a program approved during F&F were guns were provided by the ATF to straw buyers so they could be tracked the guns after they entered Mexico. It involved one lone ATF agent who is now Issa's whistle blower.

I admit I have not read the full article yet, but I heard an interview Katherine Ebon gave. What she said sounded credible and was obviously well researched.

Not surprised Issa promised these witchhunts when he took over the committee.

It's very interesting! But ultimately futile - Holder has agreed to the basics. So he either lied about not knowing, or he's lying now for political purposes. He can't win :p

Pete

That is the issue not the actual program, namely, why did Holder change his position? Obviously, at the least, the program was an idiotic decision and, at the worst, it was a poltical motivated anti-gun program. The chin strokers in the democratic party come up with all sorts of neat convoluted plans to further their political objectives. Sometimes, I even kind of respect them for their creativity.

Funny but I did not see anything that told me to what political party those ATF agents belonged. Or are you just doing an Issa impersonation?

You cannot be prosecuted of a cover-up unless the Fast and Furious Program was illegal to begin with.


Ok Bhunter let me get this straight.
1) Obama Administration (which has done nothing at all on the issue of gun control) decides to sell illegal weapons to Mexican straw buyers who will give them to the bad guys so they can shoot an American south of the border.
2) This will bring about a reinstatement of the Assault Weapons Ban, Holder's secret mission all along, thus a reversal of the Bush Administration policy.
3) Issa is going to hold Holder in contempt of Congress for letting guns go south of the border because ISSA'S ULTIMATE GOAL IS TO HAVE MORE GUNS GO SOUTH OF THE BORDER BY NOT RE-INSTATING THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN?

They are punishing Holder for being "guilty" of exactly what they want in the first place,
no controls on assault weapons. The fact that Issa (R-Vista, a congressional district brought to you by the Big Government Marine Corps Facility Camp Pendelton, CA) has come out and pronounced this idiotic conspiracy theory a possibilty shows the issue is just dead political theatre.

I think this whole thing was set up by Carl Rove knowing it would blow up on the next guys watch.




Barney

I wonder if Don will let me set up a tin foil hat concession in the lobby here at Political Chat?:D Ooohhh, git yer shiney fedoras here. I'll have to carry the New York Times and WaPo, too.:rolleyes:

First post here so bear with me if you will.

If the Ebron piece is reasonably accurate, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, then the death of that Border Patrol agent had little to do with the Fast and Furious operation to begin with, Issa's case is built on the unsubstantiated contentions of a malcontent ATF agent and this entire debacle truly is nothing more than an election year political farce.

A coverup may not be a crime to begin with, but lying under oath is. Ask Clinton :p

Hello beej. Stick around a while :)

Pete

Yup!

Welcome, Beej!

John

Welcome, beej. The article in Fortune may indeed be spot on. If so, I wonder why the administration hasn't simply laid out these facts for all to see. Issa would then have to crawl back under his rock. Maybe they're waiting until they can get more mileage out of it (i.e., October).

Of course with everyone talking about Holder and Health Care the issue of the economy is on the back burner. It is all an Obama Administration plot. I doubt few Americans are going to really care if Holder did lie to Congress. Everyone hates Congress right now. Issa is just the latest poster boy for the do nothing Tea Party congress.

Then they would clearly be in contempt, no?

Pete

Poor Issa he can't charge all of us and I for one hold the present House in comntempt.

Issa is not the best face for congressional oversight. Sort of oxy-moronic.

First, thanks, everyone for the welcome.

Secondly, I've read some speculation (may have been in the Fortune article) that the reason the administration has downplayed the real facts of the case is to avoid the potential political fall-out and pushback from the NRA and other gun-ownership rights advocates. (Sorry, I can't bring myself to use the term 'gun rights'; a gun is an inanimate object and probably doesn't really have rights.)

So any on the right read the Fortune article? It doesn't appear so.

Holder's Big Lie has to be prosecuted by the Federal Judge for DC, who works for and at the pleasure of the Attorney General. They waited 6 months for Reno before citing her with a vote for contempt. This Congress waited 4 days. Of course if it was a Republican Administration.....at least he showed up, I do not think Rover ever did.....

Nope! Why read something that might shake up their preconceptions and prejudice?

John

No, he never showed and he never responded. On the day he was supposed to appear, Rove sent a flunky to the House to tell them that the doughy little slug was out of the country and couldn't attend.

"Turd Blossom" should have gone to jail with "Scooter". The last thing I want to see is for the Democrats to become more like the Republicans but when are they ever going to grow a pair?

John

Just for clarification, it would be the US attorney, not a judge. US Attorneys are part of the Justice Department. Federal Judges are part of a separate branch of government.

Regards,

D-Ray

No problem I was fuzzy on that part...

Should we send ya an 8th grade civics book ;)

:D

Sadly, Rover did much more damage to our nation. Another chickenhawk to boot. I hate Chickenhawks more than anything.

Well it has been that long maybe....at least I had the right city. To me a Federal Judge is a lawyer who cannot get fired lol....all those guvment lawyers seem to end up on the bench anyway lol.....;)

:) :d :)

I wonder what the ratio of prosecutors versus defense attorneys are sitting judges? Not that prosecutors are all bad...;)

Of course I read it. That is why I say either way the Obama admin is LYING, either they approved it and lied, or they didn't and said they did for political purposes. Right there cut and dried in the article, plain as day.

Did anyone on the left read it without leftie filters on? :p

Pete

No filters, right or left, here. I am concerned about the way the administration handled the issue and their reluctance to speak to prosecutorial aspects of this case. That said, Issa is about as partisan as you can get, the vote to hold in contempt was rash and purely political. Someone in an official capacity needs to come out and speak specifically to that Fortune piece.

I would like to see a forthright discussion on both sides. That said, we're talking about Washington :)

Pete

Amen, sir.

The Republicans can't even manage simple honesty with regard to the nature of the program. That sort of rules out civil discourse.

John

I just now read it for the first time and from all I can see there are several people lying, Dodson, CBS, NRA Issa and Grassley and I can only conclude that AZ has the dumbest fucking gun laws in the whole USA.

Then maybe you had better quote the paragraph.

Obama handed the whole thing to Issa on a platter! Including Holder's head? Stay tuned...

Pete