Castle Doctrine or Stand your ground
 

Well we currently have two stories in the news involving people who scream "I am scared for my life" and murder innocent folks.

Both times the fear filled guy was the aggressor and had a gun.

Is it time for the Feds to step in and stop allowing the individual sates from passing laws that allow the slaughter of their own?

If so how?

If not, why do you support such aggressive and lethal laws?

Can't do that states rights doncha know.:(

That's why I asked how?

How many stories do we have about criminals killing their victims with guns?

Rob probably didn't mean it the same way I do but he is right.

I don't have any idea how, but I sure hope something is done somehow.
Everyone wants all these personal freedoms, to carry a gun, to stand ones' ground, and that would be all well and good if we could legislate common sense.
Freedom comes with responsibilities and consequences.

Um...... that's illegal, isn't it?

John

Many many more than if we did not have a crazy gun culture.

bam....

I don't know if all of you folks are familiar with the latest Stand Your Ground case in Texas. A guy walks over to a neighbor's house armed with a pistol, a flashlight and a video camera to complain about a loud party. He proceeds to shoot his neighbor dead while talking on the phone with 911 and videotaping, all the while saying "I fear for my life ... I'm standing my ground...." What a sad farce. Given that he's in Texas, he may well be acquitted from a murder charge for what was obviously premeditated murder.

http://news.yahoo.com/standing-groun...230600598.html

Too bad Perry did not go ahead with secession.

+1


Carl

He probably would have had he been able to spell it.:p

And, this is why I'm against it. It assumes that every gun owner is a reasonable and responsible person.

In my hometown in Ohio, we had a man shoot at two college students who were working for the Obama campaign in '08. They stepped out of their van, one went to the back of the van to get a sign and the other walked towards his house to ask him if they could put the sign in his yard. As the one kid crossed onto his property, the man stepped out onto the porch and shot him, then took a shot, but missed the other kid.

He tried to claim he felt threatened and entitled to protect his property under the Castle Law. IIRC, he was found guilty, but received a light sentence.

This sort of thing is insane, IMHO. As I see it, that guy is cold blooded murderer and should have received full penalty.

Dave

This is the TX case I spoke of in the OP.

Then of course we have teh Fl Zimmerman case.

This is the typical gun owner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku_Qz...ature=youtu.be

What about this one.

Another Unarmed Black Youth Gunned Down, This Time 13-Year-Old Darius Simmons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=1zd9PQWeEW4

http://www.blackyouthproject.com/201...-13-years-old/

The article above contained errors that were corrected. Darius was accused of stealing a shot gun and was shot and killed by a 9mm pistol.

A quote from another article proves Spooner committed premeditated murder.

"According to Milwaukee Alderman Bob Donovan, he had breakfast with Spooner an hour before the shooting and Spooner told him he suspected Darius of the crime and was upset that the police hadn’t done anything about it. Spooner then told the Alderman, that there were other ways of dealing with these problems. That qualifies as premeditated murder of a 13 year old boy. To make matters worse, the family only lived next to Spooner for a month."

The worst side note to the murder is the police conduct. They kept Darius' mother in the back of a squad car questioning here for two hours while here son was dying in the hospital. At the same the same time they searched the victims house. They also arrested Darius' big brother on outstanding truancy warrants and hauled him off to jail.

While they were harassing the Simmons they allowed the Spooner family members to enter his house and freely remove items. One I bet was the "stolen" shot gun that senile old man Spooner put up and then forgot were he put it.

OMG. I just saw the video of the Texas incident on CNN. Yep, old boy is full of crap. He grabs a gun and his camera and walks over to a bunch of drunken rowdies, confronts them, shows them his weapon........(Again, at any point he could have just turned around and gone home.) Yes, that wouldn't stop the noise problem that led to the confrontation. But, walking away would surely have de-escalated it.

HE was in control of the situation. One guy seems to suggest he's going to get a weapon........... And why not? Didn't the man show up at the party waiving a gun? So, at that point, you go home. I mean WTF? He just stands there, saying, "Oh, my God, I'm afraid for my life. They're going to kill me.", when it is readily apparent that no one is restraining or detaining him? WAITING FOR THE OTHER GUY TO RETURN WITH HIS GUN.:confused:

This is absurd, it truly is.

Dave

Do you really think so?

Lets hope the courts deal with him in the strongest manner allowed by law.

I don't think so. Not "typical" anyhow. But, I do know some like that---and worse.

We'll see what comes of it. But, if you've seen that video, I don't see how anyone could find it defensible. It was obvious to me, what he was up to.

Ever see that South Park episode where they go around poaching animals, shouting "Oh my God, it's headed right for us!" just before they shoot?
That's what this video looked like to me. Like our man already hated this noisey neighbor (And who can blame him for that.) and went over there looking for an excuse to shoot the guy.

Geez.

Dave

I haven't seen the video but I trust your interpretation of it.

I wonder if any of these folks would have still acted if there weren't a Stand Your Ground law. I'm inclined to believe that the law is not operative in any of these cases.

Other than these murderous sons of bitches feeling empowered by these misbegotten laws? That I would agree to.

Did you watch the video of the Texas incident? While I agree that the Florida incident may not have had anything to do with SYG, the Texas incident almost certainly did.

Right. Let them get the notion in their heads that they can kill someone and get away with it, so long as they claim they "felt endangered" and watch what happens...:rolleyes:

Oooops, too late. This is already happening.

Dave

That guy is stupid. What takes precedence - castle law or stand your ground? I guarentee it's castle law. We'll see.

I'll go by castle law whether it's 'legal' or 'not'.

Pete

Is the issue stupid people?

"Yes."

Would there still be stupid people without handguns?

"Yes."

Would they be able to SHOOT anyone?

That's my point.

What about us smart fellers? ;)

Or do we ration base levels of freedom on the lowest denominator?

Pete

I suppose it depends if you smart enough to know the difference between your neighbor's driveway and your own home with respect to the castle doctrine.;)

Honestly, absolutely.

I speak from personal experience which I have documented pretty well here.


Do I know folks like you and Pat treat guns responsibly? Of course.

It's just that the average Joe is a knuckle head not an educated family man.

Hollywood needs to accept some blame, all those westerns that glorified the young guns who in fact were teen age hoodlums.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but I don't believe a convicted felon can carry a weapon. So the level playing field is not there.
Criminals are reportedly purchasing and carrying more weapons than those legally in the hands of licensed holders. Just saying...


Ahhh...http://suite101.com/article/gun-owne...-felons-a71729

Could it be... "the have nots against the legally haves?"

same with the mob and then gang movies

That, in a nutshell, surmises my problem with liberals. They assume that people are idiots and that the passing of a law by a fluid group of supposedly superior citizens can thwart the idiocy of other citizens.

It's not an assumption that people (all people) are idiots but that some people are, or at least can't be relied upon to act responsibly in all circumstances. Even a teabagger should be able to agree with that. There are many examples to prove the validity of that idea, not least of them the recent horrors in Florida, Texas and New York.

John

As long as we agree it's a people problem and stay away from the knee jerk
reactions I am good with that.

I'm all for the mandatory education and registration with a cooling off period for all gun sales, public and private. Chainsaws, too.:p

Both of you are ad homineying this thing to death:rolleyes:

Ya know people have been killing people since the beginning of time. More so
before guns were ever even dreamed of. We only became somewhat "civilized" last
century and I'm not so sure we are still headed in that direction. It's a mean
ass world out there in places.