This is very sad indeed 154 military suicides in 155 days
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=mJU-07Jizp8#!

This is the Bush's legacy and is Obama's problem.

I wonder how many soldiers have really died in these wars. Suicides, I am pretty sure, are not counted as casualties.

It is time to pull these troops out 100% from both of the wars the neocons started. The problem is, what do we do with the large number of soldiers that would come home.
Perhaps they are the workforce we need to rebuild our infrastructure. It is time for a serious GI bill again.

There are many ways this discussion can go. What are your thoughts.

Having close personal experience with two who served in these two recent wars. Unless they can seek help without fear of separation then this will keep happening.



Barney

I think the reason Obama hasn't pulled out earlier is fear of "cutting and running" rhetoric from the GOP. Generally, the Dem's always overcompensate for their perceived weakness on national security, even if it means soldiers' lives are sacrificed for politics.

That said, a GOP victory could ultimately entail yet another NeoCon clusterf*ck and lots more death and destruction (in Iran, for example).

Doesn't service in the military still provide higher education benefits after separation? How has it changed since '45? I'm just throwing out a couple questions that are germane to it.
I agree that we can't get out of Afghanistan fast enough, our fight is and was with Alqueda and shouldn't really extend beyond that particular antagonist.
As to rebuilding infrastructure off the top of my head there really plenty of people in country that will leap, some reluctantly, at a job. Retraining commodities brokers and cubicle hounds to pick and shovel work is really easy.;)
Somehow there appears to be a bias that only the young are fit to manual labor.
I think that is probably due to the fact that many are out of shape and of the fantasy that dirty hands are somehow reserved for the underclass. Both of those conditions & attitudes are easily changed by poverty. When there is a WPA/CCC type of solution available to out of work people they will be lining up.

I think congress is solely to blame for the stagnating situation in the economy. There's no doubt unless you are living under a rock that with the current group of GOP Senators are unwilling for whatever reason to approve (or shoot down and take the heat) the Jobs Bill and similar legislation they have been filibustering at a rate that is unprecedented in the countries history. Remember who is on your side this coming election and vote your conscience.

Parting shot-how does anybody in the military consider voting for Romney considering his past. Religious deferment. Are there any Mormons in France? Did he convert anyone when he was there? Or (as I suspect)was it simply an extended vacation provided by his daddy, with a little fun taunting the French?:rolleyes:

Yes, Iran for sure and probably Syria too. McCain, Lieberman and Graham have been making loud insistent noises about us assuming a combat role there.

John

I don't believe that suicide report is accurate but if a few cowards hung
themselves because it was not a free ride through life on our coin then we
are better off anyway. Next

A lot of the VA benefits of the past have been theatre specific and/or sunsetted. When our involvement in the Middle East began there wasn't much in the way of benefits our returning veterans could avail themselves of.

Senator Jim Webb, D. Va. and former Secretary of the Navy under Reagan, had been very effective at writing and getting passed very good veteran's affairs legislation, including the "Post 9-11 Veterans' educational Assistance Act" and he ain't done yet. He's a bit of a Blue dog but a good man..... And he hates W. with the heat of 1,000 white suns!

'Course, to take advantage of veteran's benefits you have to be a veteran. Stop-Loss makes that a bit problematic.

John

Holeeeee shit, Jack! That's pretty fuckin' cold!

Oh, and why don'y you "believe it"? Do you have other data or do you just not like to contemplate the reasons for all these suicides?

John

I can't be held responsible, I watched Patton a couple weeks back;)

The military brainwashes their people that any sign of "weakness" is to be ridiculed and attacked. This is why so many military and ex-military are so far right. I used to be that way, until I started getting a little older, having heart problems, arthritis issues and reality set in. I'm hoping that someday and the sooner the better, that the rest of my beloved country will snap out of this uber-Republican induced he-man bullshit and follow suit. Before the whole damn country turns into a troop of baboon.

And, I mean that most sincerely.

Dave

What an absolutely ignorant post. (Spoken in whispered astonishment.)

Thanks, Jack.

Well and truly written!

I have never understood the current training method, you take a young person and berate them loudly at every turn until you have wiped away their personality. Then you proceed to re-build them in your image. But when you are finished with them you don't put back the personality you destroyed, why?

That was not done in WW II, about all they got to know was how to shoot an M1 and how to march in step - yet they were the Greatest Generation. When they came home they were still mostly the person who went off to war except thay did have some memories they would rather have done without. Still underneath that burden were the good personalities originally there.

Believe whatever you want to. This is just the first result for the search, 154 military suicides in 155 days. There are many more.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/477262.../#.T9M-rhRRiTI

Military life is what it is ......tough. Is this expected? How thus this compare to other times..... whether in peace or at war?

In WW2 there was no time, soldiers, sailors and Marines were pushed through basic quick and dirty then sent off to the frontlines----As I recall being told by older family members and other community members of my youth. In fact, most of the WW2 veterans I grew up in the presence of, believed we won due to their COLLECTIVE efforts and willingness to look out for each other.

NOT because they were a bunch of "enlightened self interest" bullshit believing selfish punk "individualists" who only give a damn about themselves and their own careers----Like my generation apparently is.:mad:

And, if anyone here thinks the issue of intolerance wasn't present during WW2...........
Patton was reprimanded for slapping a soldier who had "lost it"...........

Dave

I think the difference this time is we have never fought a war that is this protracted. We ask our men and women to go into battle three, four, and even five tours. War has become their lives for no reason at all. We are not there for any reason at all. Well, the military industrial complex is happy. (cue up Pink Floyd's "Money")

I had a helper a few years ago who was a .50 caliber sniper in Iraq. Oh, the stories he would tell at lunch time. He was all of 26 years old. He had a young wife and a newborn son. He had to leave the area because he could not afford to live here. Several months later I heard that he ate his deer rifle for lunch. So Sad.

Kudos to the country singer Tim McGraw, he is donating all his concert proceeds to buy houses for vetrans. Unlike the wealthy bankers who are foreclosing on veterans families.

This is not really a war but a counter-insurgency. Your enemy does not wear a uniform, has no compunction about hiding amongst women and children. But you are expected to try and not hurt any civilians so you don't know that "that civilian" is a terrorist until he lobs an RPG at you.

And then he refused to show up to receive his Oscar.

Regards,

D-Ray

Wasn't "just Hollywood"...............

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/...g-Soldier.html

Regards,
Dave

Just a thought...Isn't what a president can do to bring this nation around regarding the economy and the respect globally... the reason we elect (the best man for the job)? I do feel Obama did the best job he was capable of doing. Unfortunately his prior experience was not there to get the job done (IMO). As taxpayers... we should expect those individuals we elect to bring us to a better place in society.
I voted for Obama...and the way it looks as of this day...I shall not again.

We can all think of reasons why we would NOT do something or other about many things...but when it comes to getting a job done with anyone running for office its a gamble. I'll gamble on experience every time. Its not personal...just good business. :)

at this point, Obama has more presidential experience than Romney.....

Just a thought< how about the eight years prior that landed us in the state we are in today. George Bush ran on a "we need to run government like a business" platform. That surely was a mistake and left the next president with a monumental mess to try to clean up. Let's leave the most obstructionist Senate in our countries history aside for the moment.

I guess you're saying that because Obama didn't have enough pixey dust or a magic wand that could undo eight years of unbridled greed, two blunders into manufactured bloodlust it's proper to throw the guy that you helped vote it under the bus?

Did you really expect the new guy to be able to fix all that ails us in four years? If you really did vote for Obama where was your business acumen then?

Or was it the bad taste that the Sarahcuda and asleep at the wheel McCain were offering up.

You are sounding pretty wishy washy with a hint of sour grapes to me right now.:p Sorry but maybe it'll play in Poughkeepsie.:(

In the larger view: We are fighting a tough resilient enemy who wants to bury us all. We have to be tough also. Thank goodness we have an all volunteer force.

A spartan attitude, existence is demanded of us all.

They dug up Stalin and put him back on the throne? I guess you're being historical.:rolleyes: Having an all volunteer army means the well to do's children will never serve alongside their employees progeny. The well to do are in general the policy makers. Why is it that otherwise smart folk can't see that?

I believe you underrate this great nation. After 9/11 a lot of privileged americans answered the call, voluntered.

I am curious, how many members of Congress have people in the military. I think Joe Biden has a son in the service.

Well Mam, maybe that is because Obama said HOPE and McConnell said NOPE. He can't do it all by himself as the last time I looked it was "Checks and balances" and not a dictatorship.:rolleyes:

Jim Webb does. I think McCain does. There are probably more than you or I imagine, Rob, you can bet there are damn few grunts!

John

That's right I recall Webb wearing his son's boots during the election.

I still feel a terrible sadness when PBS Newshour puts up the pictures of the fallen, so terribly young and all for a bunch of benighted savages.

These are tough times, but we are well served by this very egalitarian arm force.

This word "egalitarian" you are using. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Our army is far from egalitarian, either in terms of its demographics or it heirarchical structure. The ranks are comprised of the "lower orders"of our society - becoming even more so because of the lowered standards for enlistment - and the governing "RHIP" philosophy makes the military a very stratified culture.

John

While what you say is certainly true, the Army is more merit-based than most any other public (or private institution). In that sense, it is egalitarian (i.e., an enlisted man or officer's chances of career progression is based more on merit than class or clan.) That said, the social classes from which the officers corps and enlisted men come is certainly very different.

My experience in the military, brief though it was, tells me that what you say is largely true in the enlisted ranks but that an officer's career is very much determined by "class and clan". I''ts all about graduation, and class ranking, from one of the service academies and whether your father, grandfather or great, great, great grandfather served and what rank they attained.

John

OK! Thanks for distilling! I am now able to put your opinions in perspective.

Here is a black officer who graduated from a service academy.(Saw him on C Span)
A distinguish record, but the fact that he is a West Pointer probably enhanced his
promotional climb.

http://www.army.mil/africanamericans...es/austin.html

I believe that you didn't read what I wrote. No matter.

So, your point is..... what? He's black?

John

Dispite being black has fulfilled important class requirements as per your observations.

So, that was your point. Boy, oh boy!

John

I think it is fair to say that whether it is in the military or in society, we do have aspects of a class system. Those born into prosperity are more likely to have the tools (and connections) to attain future prosperity. The barriers of economic classes are clearly not impermeable. Perhaps they are not even barriers, but there are obstacles that are cleared away for some and stacked up against others.

Regards,

D-Ray