I hope this has not already been posted. I find it very disturbing
 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...n-killing.html

Look I am not an anti 2nd amendment person, I own plenty of guns, but a state that enacts a law that allows you to gun down someone if you "feel" threatened by them is just plain wrong.

Let me qualify myself. There are already laws that allow you to use lethal force if someone is threatening your life. A seventeen year old black kid should not be killed for walking to the corner store to buy skittles, and a drink Then, when trying to walk back home, he is confronted, and then murdered by an asshole who thinks he is the self appointed protector of the gated community.

This is not what pisses me off the most. The asshole who killed the kid, in cold blood, still has not been arrested. It has been a month since the shooting.

This is the law the prick is hiding behind:

Under Florida law, there is no "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a lawful right to be. Instead, you may stand your ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others.

Those must have been some deadly Skittles. It is the "reasonably believe " part that doesn't work in the law. Who determines what is reasonable if their is no arrest and no trial. The cops!?

Thanks Jeb, you did a great deed signing this stinker into law. Guess you are a committed NRA guy, even though your father despised the NRA, but that is another story

BTW, Since when is an Hispanic man (the shooter) a white man. I can't believe these news reporters.

Anyone recall Bill discussing his brandishing of firearm when he felt threatened?

That's why you don't write laws like this.

I've been hearing about this story on the news and it is very disturbing on several levels. I also heard snippets of a 911 call the perpetrator made before the shooting. The 911 operator told the man not to follow the kid...

This is a tragedy and it looks like a whole lot of states have jumped on the bandwagon with it. Vigilantie commitees served up by the HOA is how I'm seeing this one and should be sued along with drop kicking this murderous SOB into the general population at Rayford. :mad:

At least the Grand Jury will now be looking at this along with the FBI.

More stupid shit, foisted upon American society by half-wit Dirty Harry wannabes.

Let's see, you get to kill an unarmed person, then walk away because you felt justified in doing so? That's just friggin' excellent.

What's next? Pre-emptive self defense? You think your neighbor might want to harm you, so you can just stroll up to his porch, ring the doorbell and blow his head off?

Dave

Yes I do. BTW my name is Bill too.

Fox News contributor Rod Wheeler a former D.C. homicide detective summed the situation up nicely in this quote:

"The police department in [Sanford, Florida] oppose that law," Wheeler told Fox News host Brian Kilmeade. "What that law is saying in the state of Florida -- and look at the case law -- you can actually shoot a dog. It happens all the time. You can shoot a kill a dog and get arrested and put in jail, but if you kill a kid -- and especially a black kid in Florida -- you can walk away. That's what that law means."

I Bet if Trayvon Martin (the victim) had been white and Zimmerman (the shooter) had been black, Zimmerman would have been shackled in the basement of the police station, in a matter of minutes after the shooting, waiting for the lynch mob to arrive.

I suspect the Feds will go after a civil rights violation. You can't violate an innocent young man's rights of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" much more than by murdering him in cold blood.

I recall, and the circumstances were different.

As to the law itself in relation to this particular instance, either it was poorly written or the police didn't do their job.

Chas

BTW, this is why they write laws like that.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lind-date.html

Should we be outraged about this as well?

Chas

I heard an interview yesterday morning with a director of a community watch organization in Fla. The shooter came from an organization that was not registered with law enforcement. The director trains watch groups along with law enforcement officials. A couple of the first points in training are to not use firearms and to not follow suspects. More evidence that the guy was on his own power trip. He also is reported to have had a record for having assaulted a police officer. It sounds like his neighborhood would be safer with him behind bars.

Regards,

D-Ray

I thought the laws already protected one in one's own dwelling. That story has nothing to do with a vigilante on patrol. The conduct there is outrageous and sickening, but not relevant.

Regards,

D-Ray

I'm sure everyone knows a "wanna be cop" at one time or another. This sounds like another case of someone untrained wanting power and a gun to enforce it. He had a cell phone, called the police that should of been the end of it for him.

Hopefully something good will come out of the terrible terrible crime. Shame it had to come to this before this guy came under the microscope of public attention.

Once he gets locked up his dance card will be full waiting to be punched. Real popular guy just wait and see.

Barney

Seems like a lot of states used to have a duty to retreat, even within one's own home.

Probably most of the Castle Doctrine and Stand your Ground laws have grown from laws which required the duty to retreat.

And before we sentence the "vigilante" to life and 50, let's see what the courts decide...unless you have more faith in the media getting their facts straight than I do.

After all, I wasn't there, were you?

Chas

Some of the worst wannabee cops I've ever run into WERE cops.

Chas

I am reasonably certain that, if there is ever an alternative to killing a man, the courts will decided it should have been taken.

Very prescient, Barney:

A report in the Orlando Sentinel today has more information about Zimmerman. The 28-year-old was born in Virginia, attended Seminole State College, and aspired to become a law-enforcement officer.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...uiRS_blog.html

That is just sickening. But, what does it have to do with Floridas stupid law? He busted in and physically attacked. The old man would have been legally justified anyways.

Dave

Did Zimmerman have a concealed weapon permit?

I don't think that there are any Castle Doctrine laws that say that you can go around provoking confrontations and then just shoot someone because they threaten you after the fact.

Also, it's been close to a month and Zimmerman? has yet to be charged. I say let's let the grand jury do their work, for all we know this may be a legal shooting. If not, lock him up...I don't have a problem with that.

I'm also smelling a big political rat as the DOJ is interjecting themselves into this issue. Normally, they don't become involved in situations like this.

And I'm not too hep on trial by media.

Chas

This looks to me like the media getting involved only shed light on a cover up.

Being one who has been a subject of profiling and can contest to the hassles it can cause. But I could of cut my hair and shaved stopped driving a van, but others of color are not so lucky.







Barney

Of course we should be outraged. Home invasions happen way too often. If one of them had shot and killed the home invading prick when he broke in, to protecting themselves, I would have been fine with it. It would have been legal in Oklahoma. Recently, it happened here, The renter shot and killed one invader. The other one will never walk again. Once again I have no problem with this killing to protect one's home.

To equate the Oklahoma tragedy with the stalking and murdering of an unarmed, innocent young man, walking home from the store, In his own neighborhood, is ridiculous.

The real problem is the corrupt police department that allowed Zimmerman to hide behind a "make my day" law. I heard the chief of police was going to sign off on this "matter" today and put it to bed. Really:rolleyes: you have a dead man, killed by Zimmerman over a month ago, and you intend to do no investigation at all. How pathetic.

One other thing, it is not up to the police to interpret the law. They should have arrested Zimmerman, he should have been bought before a grand jury after an extensive police investigation. If the grand jury felt that no charges were warranted, then Zimmerman should go free. If he is charged and found not guilty in a court of law, then he should go free. That is how the system works. It is not up to the police to make any determination of innocence or guilt no matter what the law says.

I think the chief of police just shat his pants. The stench on this case is overwhelming.

How much attention would it take to have stopped this guy? In France, they were watching that nut for years, and he still managed to kill a handful of people.

I thought Zimmerman was arrested, then released. I'm not familiar with the particulars of this case, and this has become a media driven frenzy.

But I do know one thing, due to my close association with the local police and the former prosecuting attorney.

The wheels of justice move mighty slow at times. Just waiting on autopsy results, reports from the crime lab, etc can take a long time.

And you can't proceed with a case until you have all of the evidence. Meantime, everybody is running around bitching that the cops ain't doing their job...which may or may not be the case.

A grand jury has been convened, so it looks like people are doing their job, and justice...or in the absence of that, legality...will be served.

Chas

Yes, and he obtained it despite being charged with assaulting a police officer and resisting arrest in 2005. The case was reduced to a minor charge that was expunged. He has friends on the force, and is training to become a police officer.

Here is an interesting link. Not exactly Liberal tripe. http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...se-murder.html They somewhat defend Zimmerman but think he should be charged with something like manslaughter or "just being stupid".

After the Feds stepped in.

The details are way to complex to sum up in short posts. One thing is a fact. Trayvon was tested for drugs, Zimmerman wasn't. The investigation is already compromised.

The Sanford police department Has a very checkered recent past. I look forward to learning more.

Read the link I just posted. It is interesting to see what defensive gun rights advocates are saying.

Oh, I know lots of prosecutors, public defenders, judges, and cops. They are personal friends, or my wife has represented them, keeping their ass' out of the ringer or in the money. I know how the process works. This one does not pass the smell test.

Man, I have some good stories to tell about lawyers, judges, and cops. I think that would be a great new thread. Some of it is very interesting. One involves my father in law, a prominent lawyer, law school professor, and an Assistant US Attorney that represented Eisenhower in the Little Rock Central High School segregation debacle in the 50's.

That was his early career. The accusation, conviction, and then the eventual acquittal for importing four tons of Columbian pot into the US is a really good story. Case law is still used today in drug trials.

Guess I just don't trust the legal system that much.

Tell the story.

True in an open free society cases like these will happen. I would hope that when there are armed self appointed guards roaming any neighborhood more care will be taken from now on. Permits in my state are very easy to obtain, most opt for the life time issued one.

I have two neighbors who sometimes choose to mow their lawns strapped. One was an axillary officer until trying take over from the State/County Police at an accident scene. The other just likes showing off his guns.

You could come into my home and never know there are any guns around.

Also just think if this was reversed, if a Black man shot a White kid?

Barney

I was actually pretty impressed by the neighborhood watch program official from Dade County. When she appeared on NPR, she was emphatic that a properly run program screens folks with the characteristics that have been reported about this guy, that properly run programs are affiliated with local law enforcement, that participants are trained not to carry guns, and that they are trained to not follow suspects. They are the eyes and ears, but not the arms of the law.

Regards,

D-Ray

He has JJ, ask him for the link.

Of course, that would be like asking me where I put my "Arctic Socks" that I haven't worn for 20 years.

Chas

I don't either, when you get right down to it.

It's like a gambling trip to Vegas. The game's rigged, and if you ain't one of the players, then you're one of the rubes.

I've seen dirty politics up close too. Not QUITE on the same level as you, but I was amazed.

I'd never make it in politics. I'd get pissed off and kill some sumbitch...right in front of God and everybody.

Let me take that back. I'd probably HIRE somebody to kill some sumbitch while nobody was looking.

I'm 58 yrs old, and slowly getting wiser. And to tell the truth, the only reason I'd feel bad is if I were to get caught...other than worrying about getting caught.

Perhaps Castle Doctrine should be a defense allowed in politics? If they're out to destroy you and take everything you have???

Chas

You walk into my house, and all you can see is a pellet pistol I use to defend my little dog's honor and a Keen Kutter 20 ga that I've been too lazy to hide.

Whenever we went to Isla Mujeres I hid guns all over the place. Took me two months to find the S&W Chiefs Special I hid is a secret compartment in my stereo stand.

I think I've found them all.

Chas

I meant the personal stories.

OK, I will start a new thread

Can't help but think of Oscar Grant. You voluntarily get off a BART train to be restrained by officers and while face down on the ground shot in the back and killed.
Results? Ooops, clumsy me. Involuntary manslaughter, 2 years.

Carl

That idiot Geraldo Rivera on Fox and Friends claimed that Zimmerman shot Travon because he was wearing a hoodie.

Horrendous revolter needs to go back and check Capone's vault again or travel to a war zone and reveal troop movements on national TV. What an ignorant putz.

Can't argue with your assessment of Geraldo. He is an ignorant putz.

Chas

Not to mention arrogant.

+2.

Only Geraldo would bring Skinheads and Black Panthers on stage together and be genuinely surprised when a fight breaks out. Total moron deserved the broken nose.

Dave

Didn't they hit him in the face with a folding chair, kinda like All Star Wrasslin'?

Even Porkchop Jones knew when to duck.

Chas

Laws like Stand Your Ground have been sponsored by the American Legislative Exchange Council to increase firearms sales mainly. During debate in Florida in 2005 one of the state legislatures said it would turn his state into the OK Coral. Jeb Bush has come forward in the past day or so stating that how Zimmerman and his attorney's are using the law is not anything like how he intended it when he signed it into law.

Now there's this. Thanks Mitch Daniels. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03...cers-into-law/