PPACA and the Catholic temper tantrum.
 

Looks like they'll be getting an exemption.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...ps?sc=fb&cc=fp

Which I see as compromise and pragmatism. I'm sure some of us here are still horribly offended, for whatever reason.

Personally, I see churches as nothing more than a business selling a service and think they should have to pay taxes and abide by the same laws the rest of us do, regardless of their beliefs. But, that's me, I'm a dick that way.:p

Dave

I agree, if they wish to stick their noses into the running of the country then pay taxes like the rest of us. The hypocrisy of the whole deal is that they cover ****** with no copay. One of these days women may achieve equality but I suspect it won't happen in my lifetime.

Nice to see that people who have sworn off from having sex are deciding if others are allowed to get contraceptives or not.

The Obamaites did not see this coming?

Seems like the Catlickers went 55-45 in favor of Obama in the last election. Now is not the time to piss them off.

Chas

I just cannot belive all the attention and time devoted to all types of social issues. Gay this, contraception that, God here, abortion there, good grief what is with these people?

What a pile of cr@?!

Anyone ever here of free will, something that most religious and specifically the Catholics preach. Just because the law says they must offer it, doesn't mean the people have to get or use it.

They have all the latitude in the world to teach this too. They can tell their followers that we must by law offer this, but we do not approve of it, nor is it okay to use this. You will still be comitting a sin if you take this.

I guess they really don't believe all that they preach.

I am like Thomas Jefferson in his beliefs of church and state. He would go to great lengths to attend a prayer meeting, as long as there were no preachers, pastors, etc present. If they were, he would refuse to participate. He had disdain for the organized religious leaders.

The wife and I are Catholic and tell you the church is out of touch with most members still. All the GOP has accomplished by jumping on this is to point out how they want to dictate their agenda on everyone. For the first time I have heard friends on the right say a single payer healthcare system is needed.

Women freely take birth control now and do not want to be told by anyone what to do. I for one do not want to go back to a time when women did not have access to BC pills. The young guys don't know how different it was back then!




Barney

How did the old joke go?
A marriage proposal from the 60's was
"You're what?!?!?!?"

How easy it is for one who is "Celibate" to decide this issue for others who are not!




Barney

I guess they don't need contaceptives because AFAIK you can't get a choir boy pregnant.:rolleyes:

Doh!
KABAM!!

That's right. Young people have always screwed like rabbits. Always will. Even Catholics. (Zappa comes to mind.) It's just that when someone got pregnant back in the day, she either "Went to live with relatives", she got an illegal abortion, or the guy married her whether either one of them liked it or not. (If her father and brothers didn't beat him to death. Which they certainly would have done if he was one of "them".:rolleyes:)

The world has IMPROVED since then.

But, of course, the right has to ram it's fantasy based backwards social agenda down everyones throats. God forbid, (Pun intended.), the pregnancy would be prevented in the first place with a friggin' condom or a BC pill.

From someone who had a tighter grip on reality than Rick Santorum and the Arch Diocese of Pittsburgh;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afIVLB4Ss2g

Dave

The bottom line here is that if they are doing business, such as a hospital, and likely receiving federal funding of some sort, then they are supposed to be held to all the same federal regulations as any other organization receiving federal funding. And, that includes providing birth control in the health plans offered to employees, some who, by the way, might not even be catholic.

And there we have it. Simple, to the point and entirely correct.

Thank you, Barbara.

Dave

Contraceptives are also prescribed to women for various medical conditions other than birth control. I wonder how they will handle that? Also AFAIK Planned Parenthood never turns a woman away from its services.
I never could wrap my mind around the fact that women on public assistance are available for fertility drugs ( at our expense).

That's crazy. :mad:

The U of L hospital merger with was blocked by the Governor of KY stating,


"Beshear said, "Significant legal and policy concerns have been raised about this proposed merger, including constitutional and public policy questions about the influence of a religious entity on a publicly owned institution, especially regarding reproductive issues."

Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/2011/12/31/2...#storylink=cpy

They planned to eliminate all forms of BC. No tubal ligation's for one and U of L is the hospital of last resort for the poor.




Barney

Catholic Church ever complain about that?

Dave

Heck no. The more "souls" that exhist, the more tithing and more political control they have.

Is the Catholic church OK with fertility drugs?

We have even had catholic druggists claim that filling a BC prescription violates their beliefs. If you don't want to serve the public then don't open a public business. BTW I happen to be married to a (former*) catholic who has told me of some of the less pleasant details of being educated by nuns. They nearly had a cow when they caught her reading Sigmund Froid in sixth grade geography class.:p

*Former because both of us have given up on organized religion. Her church would not marry us and St. Paul's would not let us renew our vows in the American Chapel because I was divorced. Did not seem to stop Charles and the rotweiler.

Watching the GOP jump all over this issue like a bunch of sanctimonious prudes is indeed amusing. I guess they need to change the subject about the economy as things seem to be getting better now. Time to rev up the culture wars.

If Newt keeps up the ranting he will probably have a stroke.

Maybe I should send him an email, insulting and challenging all of his most deeply held convictions. Get him all fired up.........One last time....:p

Dave

Newt has deeply held convictions? Who knew.:p

Of course he does. They just shift a little, depending on whose vote he's trying to get this week.:p

Dave

When one applies reasoning like that, it puts to lie the argument that the President is engaged in an attack on religion.

Regards,

D=Ray

Dave and DRay, I work with federal funding (yes, I'm one of those people who spend your hard earned tax dollars) and I can remember the public outcry when Bush pushed faith based social programs. Fact is, organized religions, not just the Catholics, have been receiving federal funding for decades for various reasons and they have the same rules as any other organization that accepts federal funds.
This whole issue is simply being blown up for the sake of politics. That people get caught up in it is an indicator of how easy it is to sway the masses. (pun not intentional).

Many people much smarter than I am have struggled with the application and limits of the First Amendment. Does the First Amendment apply only when religion stays in its place? What is its place? Don non-abridgement mean special treatment?

For this issue, I land in pretty much the same place as you, Barbara. In providing medical care, or running a research university, or a publishing house, churches are competing in the marketplace with secular institutions. I do not believe that the First Amendment means that religious institutions should have an advantage in the secular marketplace.

Regards,

D-Ray

This will all boil down to, those who need no matter how wrong to justify their rational for thinking the Democrats are evil. Total escape from reality and acceptance of fantasy as fact.




Barney

Oh, I think they did.

And what we've discovered is that 98% of Catholic women use some form of contraception.

The problem is that 48% of Catholics are hypocrites related to policy.

I won't go so far as to say this issue is completely politics, just mostly politics. It's also not an issue I would pick to engage in, there are plenty of others.

But if someone doesn't want to administer a medication to me due their moral beliefs, I would respect them.

And take my business down the street. That way we can both be happy.

Now concerning Federal funding. Since app 30% of the population has a problem with this, why not include an opt out clause which comes with a reduction in payments which reflects the actual costs of this particular service?

That way everybody can be happy. And it will no longer be a political issue.

Chas

Chas, I don't know of a public health care institution that could survive without some federal funding....
But, I could be wrong, there might be some out there.

Is a Hospital that practices policies like these extend my life? If I have a living will saving "Do Not Resuscitate or a DNR" will they still keep me alive raking in the federal dollars?




Barney

Do you imply the opposite of Logan's Run? :)

I just asking, if you take to the extreme, the belief that all life is sacred this would seem a likely next step. If not then may I ask why?



Barney

That's why I suggested a deduction in payments based on this issue alone, not an elimination of all payments.

Since federal funding is your expertise, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm assuming that payments are based on services rendered, so why not offer an opt out clause on this particular one?

Not being a woman, I don't see that abortion or birth control are any of my business. Then again, I don't see that attempting to force people to violate their moral principles are any of my business either.

There is enough hate in this world without creating even more. This should be a non issue.

Chas

Maybe if you handcuff a heavily armed lawyer to your wrist they won't.

Chas

Chas, just because birth control options are covered in a health plan doesn't mean a woman has to use them. My insurance covers prostate exams, but I'm not likely to take advantage of that benefit.