Obama's America
 

So, when are we going to start calling this Depression 2?

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzucke...-than-it-looks

More Americans are starting to "get it" that all of the money we spent to create jobs went down a rat hole:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...nomy-poll.html

I think it is fair to call it that already (Depression II) but let's be very very clear, Ray-gun started this and Bush is the most singularly responsible.
In fact it is the miserable greed filled gOP that has kept Obie from pulling us out of it.

Tax breaks for those working, people need to rise up.

It's Reagans fault :rolleyes:

Didn't watch that 'The Warning' I take it? Hint: Clinton, with Bush not fixing it.

And the GOP didn't let the Dem controlled government fix it? Iirc Obama signed 'Bushes' tax cuts for the rich and the porkulus was supposed to be a save-all.

Pete

So how exactly do you two financial experts plan to create jobs. Since private industry has no plans to create jobs the only alternative is for the government to hire the unemployed. Then again we could always re-institute the draft.:rolleyes:

Just have the govt coop business, hire all the unemployed - wa'la! Full employment.

See, I'm an economic genious lol.

Pete

The Truth About the Economy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTzMqm2TwgE

What have I been saying all along - beggar the consumer and the economy goes in the toilet.:p

and something else you have been incensed by:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ_1V...feature=relmfu

The economy, brought to you by MoveOn.

Pete

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/COMPRNFB

Pete

Truth hurts does it?:p

that would work, tax people with jobs and pay people without jobs to build infrastructure and new century industries

see we agree

Unfortunately, that chart does not show how the growth in income has been divided. That is another story.

Regards,

D-Ray

Don't worry, your boys have a plan to fix it. Sounds a lot like the Bush plan, though! :eek:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...75L0GC20110622

So, what happens when you get your Republican UberAmerican........and nothing improves?

Until consumerism rises, the economy will not move. Homes, for example, are way too expensive for a nation of retail store checkout clerks and hamburger flippers to own. As are new cars, and...Well, pretty much everything. And no, you damn tightwad, the answer isn't to eliminate the minimum wage, give employers more freedom to screw people out of every last dime they can, cut off unemployment benefits or lay any more people off. All of those things do nothing but further damage to the ability of average Americans to BUY THINGS.

Geez.

Dave

Now where did I put that dead horse smiley?

Reading that, it really shows how much real growth we've had. Even with the 'rich getting richer' real compensation for shlubs like us has - gone up? Overall at least.

It appears the big question is when the bond market is going to turn on the US. All questions of job creation will become pretty much moot at that point.

Pete

It's not your inability to BUY THINGS, it's the unafordable cost of mass market goods "Made in the U.S.A."

Same in the U.K. "Made in Britain" was a mark of quality when things were built to last but not any more. People would rather buy a cheap DVD player then bin it in 12 months and buy the next generation cheap DVD player, both stamped Made in China.

How do you propose going about making all things "Made in Britain" and "Made in the U.S.A." as affordable as "Made in China"?

BTW, it's not always true. I recently bought a Wahl hair clipper, "Made in the USA":) for $28 USD. Nice clippers, solid, quiet, well built. On the same shelf clippers from Wahl and other manufacturers that looked cheap and plastic----same price, or maybe $1-2 less......"Made in China".

Maybe it's just the way I am. But, I'll part with a couple extra bucks for something that seems to be of higher quality. Sometimes even a lot more than a few bucks. Like that Musical Fidelity A3CD in the main system. $1,000 for a cd player is a ton of money, but it's an awesome deck...."Made in Great Britain" on the case.:)

Dave

McIntosh CD player here, made in Binghamton NY, USA. ;)

It's the public unions fault! Damn thugs have killed the greatest country in human history.

It's the illegals and you know it!

Regards,

D-Ray

Little by little the night turns around.
Counting the leaves which tremble at dawn.
Lotuses lean on each other in yearning.
Under the eaves the swallow is resting.
Set the controls for the heart of the sun.

Over the mountain watching the watcher.
Breaking the darkness
Waking the grapevine.
One inch of love is one inch of shadow
Love is the shadow that ripens the wine.
Set the controls for the heart of the sun.
The heart of the sun, the heart of the sun.

Witness the man who raves at the wall
Making the shape of his questions to Heaven.
Whether the sun will fall in the evening
Will he remember the lesson of giving?
Set the controls for the heart of the sun.
The heart of the sun, the heart of the sun.

Not being a man of letters, although I appreciate the poetry you have posted tonight, I don't recognize the works. Care to add to the literary education of we simple folk who frequent these pages. Who are the poets?

Regards,

D-Ray

Syd Barrett.

The overweening conceit of the American businessman never ceases to amaze. "I built this company and not the greedy workers so I am re-locating it to China." (Except that he is not re-locating himself there.)

Right, now let's look at the facts.

He was fortunate enough to live in a country with good structure and have a job that allowed him enough free time to devlop his idea. He was also fortunate enough to have access to a banking system that loaned him the startup money. He was also fortunate to live in a country with an educated workforce such that he was able to find employees to help him build his idea. That same workforce built his idea so well that his company gained both in reputation and stature.

So where did the bank get the startup money they loaned him? Was it not simply the combined savings of many middle class Americans? Where did that educated workforce come from? Was it not from the schools and universities that thousands of taxpayers funded?

This does not even begin to touch the surface; what about the infrastructure, the roads, bridges, power systems, etc.

All by himself? I don't think so.:rolleyes:

"No man is an Island.", Rob. That's what I was taught.

Dave

'He's a peninsula' ;)

Pete

Ah yes, John Donne;

"No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as a manor of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

MerryLander:

Yep.. The facts are that he did the math and decided that he either needed to manufacturer some products in China or go bankrupt when OTHERS did it first. OR -- he could of invested in INCREASE AUTOMATION which would have lowered his labor costs and still shed jobs..

Business has no obligation to commit suicide for the public good. I resent that trend as much as you do. My clients are just now suffering for that decision to export jobs. It's short-sighted because NOW -- the Chinese don't even need THEM!!

The only way to be patriotic and STAY would be to give up the BULK of your market and specialized in only quality, hi-end versions..

The rest of your attempt to indict is a rant unless you recognize exactly what choice was made.

I work for a wholesaler/master distributor. Some products, if we didn't import them we wouldn't be selling them, we couldn't compete.

So what do you do?

Pete

I recognize what choice was made and as you noted I told my employers they were making a mistake. They gave trade secrets to the Chinese and what they did not give the Chinese reverse engineered. And as you noted now they don't need them. Where we went wring was following this assinine idea of free trade when there should have been large tarriffs.

However none of this excuses their short sightedness.

Well Pete I can tell you one thing - you don't sell them to me if they come from China or India. To begin with most of their stuff is crap and my time is too valuable. If I use an American or Canadian item to make a repair I do it once and it is done. If I use the import then six months later I am doing the same repair again. No one ever regretted buying quality.

For us it's mostly old line materials that end up as part of something else, not high tech stuff but for instance a fiberous insulation from Romania made in some giant cold war era factory. Similar items from China.

Some minor tools. The domestic stuff holds up better but costs almost twice as much.

Agreed about quality. When a socket splits under load and I break 3 fingers I tend to curse the Chinese. Even though I bought it :D

Pete

Heck MerryLander:

The one client I warned about this is being ABSORBED by the Chinese. I woke up one morning to find that our Purchase Orders for our work were now SOURCED and tracked by a friendly little girl near the China Seaside.. They only THINK they're still in charge..

that's what I'm talking about :D

Wow! Sweden's growth rate is 5.5% and their budget balanced, maybe summat to be said for social democracy or monarchy considering Crown Princess Victoria.

They can just do what needs to be done, without a bunch of teabaggers getting in the way.:p

Dave

Did someone say tea party?

JUST SAY NO TEABAGGERS.:cool: