Takin' on water..
 

I get a really bad feeling about this.. Market is diving like crazy.. Helmets and flak jackets NOW..

It really is that every sector of the economy is hurting from legislative uncertainty. This last minute budgeting and tax policy is arrogant and irresponsible. Want to invest in energy? Nawww. How about healthcare? You NUTS? Well then maybe banking.. No thanks. GM/Chrysler? Can't it's gonna crash when the govt sells. Overpriced Tech stocks like LinkedIn? No way..

The market is where the jobs come from.. Evidently we have no rudder and we're fighting against the wind. Fergitabout $20/tankful overpricing on gas. The wealth of this country is evaporating as the debt mounts. Hope we (as a nation) have some canned peas and jerky stashed away.

It's tempting to ask just how bad things are; problem is that the people who have the information keep silent while the politicians talk too much. There's always been the "we're all doomed" lobby shouting loudly about this and that; they've been crying wolf for so long that if purely by chance they get things right, no-one's going to believe them.

People worry to much. Uncertainty? When has anything ever been "certain"?
Certainty is an empty grave, you will fill it one day. Everything else is subject to change.

Dave

The most troubling aspect of all of this, as is suggested by the OP, is the fact that investors and institutions continue to hold on to capital rather than invest it - either by risking their capital or loaning it (banks). Much of the waiting is because of uncertainty about what the government is going to do. When ethe free market is stifled by the actions or inactions of government, that should be illustrative of just how screwed up things have become inside the beltway.

Bullshit, most of the waiting and hanging onto the cash is simply designed to topple the current administration and get their boot licking serfs in the GOP back into power.

That's a nice donkey party talk track, but the evidence just ain't there to support it. Of course, if you want talk tracks, it can also be said that the donkeys don't want to capitulate or support any budget proposals right now because painting the Repub budget proposals as extreme will be useful during the coming campaign.

In fact, there are some things that the Administration could do today if they wanted to support economic recovery. However, the lack of any useful activity from the Administration and the Senate is quite apparent.

I don't think anything needs to be done. I don't want the GOP interfering with the market.

Conservatives have been telling me that they don't want the government doing anything for most of my life, "The market will correct itself." Okay then, we'll just sit and wait..............................................

Someone pass the popcorn.

You know, people aren't deaf, Whell. We've been listening to conservatives bitch and whine like little kids since they lost in '06. We've heard all of drum beating about making sure Obama fails. We hear all of their bellowing about how they are the "Great Americans", and the only "True Patriots", blah, blah, blah...............Don't even try to deny it. Until they have their way nothing is going to move and you know it. The Republican Party is the party of business and it's boot-licking sycophants. And until we shove the pacifier into their whiney little pie holes, they're going to carry on like it's the end of the world because THEY aren't getting their way. "I'm a businessman! I am the center of the universe, and I demand you give me a tax cut and cheap labor!":rolleyes: That's how people behave when they think only they have all of the answers and that the Almighty himself has picked them to run the whole damn world.

Have a nice weekend.

Dave

Since the senate minority leader has publicly declared that his task is to ensure that Obama does not get a second term what else are we supposed to think. He is being paid, rather handsomely, to govern not to play silly buggers. He should at the least be fired, at best stuck in jail.

Oh, but that is different. Just like "we have to balance the budget now!" (unless we get more tax breaks for the wealthy then that is different too) :rolleyes:


Carl

Has it occurred to anyone here, that it might be due to govt inattention to policy AND a huge distrust of the Pelosi-Reid express driving towards that So%ialist destination AND "something else". The something else being extremely apolitical..

SO we have the "hold the economy hostage til we fake the great People's revolution effect" and the "hissy fit - Atlas Shrugged lite effect" and what I'm calling the "Aint got a clue what the customer needs or wants anymore" effect.

They THINK what we want is to watch Hollywood movies on our 4" IPhones. They think what we want is MORE social networking.
They THINK what we want is MORE "sit in dark" GREEN shit.
They THINK what we want is ever cheaper tennis shoes and tee shirts.
They THINK what we want is CRAP for entertainment.
They THINK what we want is salicious distractions.

But what do we NEED anymore? "Aint got a f'ing clue".. I see that in the market. I see that in my trade journals. I see that in the kind of stuff that my clients and Silicon Valley are doing.

There's the obvious stuff like curing cancer and trying to make fusion power. But have we gotten to the point where we HAVE pretty much what we NEED?

I think a lot of money is on the sidelines BECAUSE it's harder to invent meaningful stuff. We're in a rut technologically. Even Moore's law is sagging.
And I can't truly tell the functional difference between and IPhone, an IPAD, an Aye-Aye and a BlackBerry. Or between Schwartznegger, Edward, Weiner or Palin..

Maybe, just maybe, that's why the class warfare. Because we just want what the other guy has now. Like a riot in a well-stocked kindergarten..

You need more coffee, Dave.

Which activity creates wealth: entrepreneurs and "businessmen" engaging in business activity, or government engaging in regulatory and collection activity. Which do we need more of to grow the economy and create jobs?

This should help if the Prez and the left will stay out of the way...http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/28/bu...hale.html?_r=1

That's a great big "if"!

All the whining about too much regulation is sheer horse manuare. Do any of you honestly believe that if U.S Bigcorp is going to open a new factory that it will be in this country? China, India, even Haiti, but sure as hell not here. Strangely enough it is GM who is opening new plants, here in Maryland we are getting an electric motor manufacturing facility.

Flack to tell the difference between an iphone and an ipad it helps if you are Chinese, goog old patriot Steve Jobs has them both built by Foxconn China, you know the place where young girls jump off the 5th story in their spare time.

The EPA won't stand for that at all. :rolleyes:

You've answered your own question here. Burdensome regulations and cost of labor will be exactly why a manufacturer might choose to locate outside the US.

Purely cost of labor, the crap about burdensome regulations is exactly that - crap.:p

Kinda like..... bull$hit?

You know JJ there was a day when American businessmen had some cojones, now they are just a bunch of wusses. They sit around and moan all day while foreign companies come here and eat their lunch. The only reason they manage to survive is by heading for China and India for slave labor. Meanwhile an Indian call center moved over here because the owner said Indian wages were too high. Shows you the direction in which we are heading. Pretty soon we will have WallyWorld move back because we will be dirt cheap employees.

Really MerryLander??? Really JJIII?

I don't think your community would welcome a new Printed Circuit Board in your community. Do YOU? What's the sense of making IPads here if we can't open a PCBoard shop? Using this industry as an example is instructive because it is NOT highly dependent on large workforces. Most of it is automated and operators are in charge of multiple jobs at once. So DESPITE MerryLander's failure to recognize REGULATION as the cause --- It's one of the largest reason this business is GONE.

http://www.ndia.org/Divisions/Divisi...%20ES%20V2.pdf

Meanwhile --

http://www.ipc.org/ContentPage.aspx?...ompetitiveness

If you're not wondering what a "conflict mineral" is -- you shouldn't be asserting that regulation is not a problem (MerryLander).

Like I said -- NOT primarily the cost of labor. But the cost of workplace compliance, energy, facilities, taxes, and REGULATION of what can be a very dirty business. So I'm not suggesting that regulation isn't required in this instance -- Just that we've overdone it with attention to such crap as required reporting on the use of "conflict minerals".

I love how management now assembles teams of employees then tell US to tell them how to run the plant. They just simply demand results instead of offering any helpful input, followed by, "No, we can't afford that.", "No, we can't do that either, 'cuz then we'd have to pay someone overtime.", "Hmmmm, that's an excellent idea.....but we're not going to do it, it costs too much.", "No, that won't happen either because engineering doesn't have the time.", "Good suggestion, I'll get back with you on that.....(Then you never hear from the lounge lizard again.)", "Those things are expensive, can't we just cobble together some junk from the boneyard and make it work?"

And then, when it inevitably fails------"Looks like we're gonna have to cut labor costs."

This is our future.

They are not innovators, they are professional lounge lizards, naysayers and shirkers of responsibility. "My business went under because the whole world is out to destroy me. Damn government....and workers.....and environmentalist.....and lesbians....a,a,a,a,and crab fisherman, YEAH THEM TOO!, ...they all hate me. That why my business failed." Industry will continue to slide down the commode, because industry bosses are a bunch of lazy, cheapskate republicans who think you can make astonishing progress without spending any money and forcing, or shaming someone else into doing all of their work for them.

"Oh, the plant is running like shit? Well, what are you gonna do about it guys? We can't have that. Let me know what you come up with. Call my cell, I'll be out at home, watching the guys build my pool.":mad:

Our competitors continue to gain ground, and will continue to do so until these clowns snap out of it. Germany for example, is one of, if not the most highly regulated countries in the world. My plant is filling up with German made machinery because it's the best and Italians don't like to waste time struggling with cheap American made junk. They've told us so.

Oh, I know. I just violated the sacred "American Exceptionalism" the sanctimonious right likes to blather on about. Sorry, but I don't care. Their way of doing things isn't going to work anymore. The world has moved on without them as they daydreamed about The Gipper and Howdy Doody.

Dave

I don't think it is purely cost of labor. I think the "crap" has a lot to do with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2FT4FprxDg

Sarcasm was lost in translation.:rolleyes:

You may be onto something here. I hate to admit it though.:o

See my last post post. Less of that, is what we need. We need less excuse makers. We need less doomsday politicians running their mouths, scaring the hell out of people. We need more business managers actually doing their jobs, and less of them playing the victim and crying like little punks is what we need.

Dave

We need less "entrepeneurs" spending their days bullshitting around on internet boards during work hours..........................like this one, for example.:rolleyes:

Where are you guys, when your on here, half the time?

Answer that one.

Dave

JJIII:

Nice jackets.. GREAT Guitars.. But that's stranger than your Aye-Aye.. I don't get the relevence. Oh Wait..

"I'm just a sole whose intentions are good> Please Lord don't let me be misunderstood"

It's a mea culpa for voting lefty isn't it --- JJ?

Never voted "left" in my life.:D It was all just a jab at Rob. Us older guys need to poke each other once in a while..... just to stir the blood.:)

It's...um....Saturday.

You're Absolutely right again Dave:

Where AM I half the time? In the shower inventing crap...

http://www.politicalchat.org/picture...=2&pictureid=8

SHEEEEZZZZ

http://www.politicalchat.org/picture...=2&pictureid=7

Here in San Diego, the malaise resonates throughout the once bustling area. Traffic has been noticeably less than pre-2009. The business people, that I talk to, are significantly down in sales and desperately trying to keep their employees. Small businesses that can operate out of a home office have done so. Of course, our cost of living has also significantly increased. A single bedroom apartment with, say, 800 square feet rents for $1100-1500 a month. No one wants to spend with the exception of the government, but that can't continue forever. IMO, you are quite correct in the assertion that the Obama Adminiistration and Congress have caused the malaise by their policies that engendered the uncertainty throughout, not only our economic system, but also, the international community. Sadly, I have no faith in the current leadership's abiltity to change course.

Precisely.

Dave

During the week?

The only time you see me here is during non-work hours. I NEVER have time when I'm at work.

Dave

Ooooo, I'm so uncertain...... Oooo, the scary black man is frightening me...
I just can't deal with it, it's tooooo haaaaaard! Mommy, I want my mommy! The mean Liberals are kicking my pansy ass again......I'm scared......

Pussies.:p

Dave

Well, since I work from home and have a bit of flex in my schedule, our situations may be a bit different.

Some on this forum do have some interesting misconceptions about how the world operates.

Dave:

If you're not just a little bit scared right now by the circus in media while Rome burns and the Stock Market melts, and manufacturing disappears, and people get desperate for jobs and means of support --- then maybe you have a little too much faith in Wash D.C. to restore all those things.

When it comes right down to it -- there's increasingly LITTLE a Prez can do to fix those things. But there's a much larger list of things he can do to make it worse. It's the army of bureaucrats and the Tax Cheat Treas secretary, and the mystery men at the Fed, that are spinning the wheels in the ditch and getting stuck up to the frame.

Especially bad is that you CAN'T lower taxes any more (yes I a libertarian said that), and you can't play with interest rates (because that bird has flown) and very soon, even with the debt ceiling kicked higher, you won't be able to find buyers for the debt we're generating by the trainload.

I'm telling ya Dave, I'm sure your Dad told you a lot about the Depression. We may get to have the same character building experience in the next 2 years or so... The next major crisis to hit is the state pensions. THEY are underfunded to tune of about $2Trill. So when THEY ask for bailouts and are refused, you're very likely to see them start dumping stocks and mutuals to stay solvent. THAT'S the next crash on Wall Street if the economy doesn't pick up and float them thru the crisis caused by states STEALING out of "trust funds".. Hasn't been a govt trust fund in my lifetime that wasn't totally EMPTIED and wasted by the govt. And I'm afraid we're gonna pay for that soon...

Sorry to be a bummer guys.. I don't drink much, but tonight I'll have to get the step ladder out and see what's up in the liquor locker.. It's old so it ought to be good..

I have no faith in anyone, anymore, beyond family, Flac. And some of them are kinda shaky.

Least of all your beloved Wall Street pirates.
I believe they would stand idly by and watch us all starve to death before they would lift a finger. Until there's a buck in it for them, of course.

And, Oh, yes he did.

Here's one for ya.

He and his brothers once had to fight a railroad yard Bull.

Why?

Because it was January and they lived in St. Louis, Minnesota just west of
Duluth. It was a particularly brutal winter. The wood they cut in the fall was gone and any they cut anew wouldn't be seasoned soon enough. So, after they had burned all of the furniture, they took pillowcases and jumped the fence at the local steel plant. Started filling up the pillow cases with coal from the trains. A "Bull" caught them. Lucky for them there were three of them and one of him. 'Cuz when he whacked my Uncle Harold in the head with his nightstick, they jumped him and beat his ass, then ran. They were teenagers.

Nice, Huh?

It kills me that I know people who can't conceive of it getting that bad.

My other Uncle, Robert, died in 1992 at 76. His Sister, her husband and my cousins searched his property...........for money. In the toilet tank, in the walls, under the carpet, in jars buried in the yard and in the flower beds in his greenhouse, (He was a florist. Retired Navy and ironically, he had retired as a maintenance supervisor from that same steel plant.) they found almost $300,000 in cash. He had no bank accounts, and no investments.

One quote I recall from him;
"Bankers don't get rich by throwing money around. They get rich by keeping it. And they'll never get any of mine."

These are the things I know about the "Great Depression". The way the folks that survived it didn't trust Wall Street, or banks, "....any farther than you can throw them."

Keep on trusting "Bankers" and the "Corporate World". You think any of those "Masters of the Universe" will be around to ladle out the soup when the shit hits the fan? Nope, they just send the Sheriff around to toss you out on your ass when you stop paying your bills.

That's what I learned from the elders in my family.

It's just as foolish as trusting the government. Actually, nowadays, I'd surmise the two are becoming one and the same. They have us by the nuts, and they feel they have been far too permissive with us.

Dave

You sure do.

Dave