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-   -   We don't have a revenue problem, ... (http://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=2582)

finnbow 05-05-2011 10:19 AM
We don't have a revenue problem, ...
 
... we have a spending problem.

This GOP mantra, repeated most recently by Mitch (The Turtle) McConnell is subjected to "The Fact Checker." Guess what? The Turtle is wrong.

"(A)s demonstrated above, revenues have consistently failed to meet the projections that prompted the original tax-cut frenzy in Congress....The nation has a revenue problem and a spending problem — or else there would not be a deficit."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...g.html?hpid=z1

noonereal 05-05-2011 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 62126)
... we have a spending problem.

This GOP mantra, repeated most recently by Mitch (The Turtle) McConnell is subjected to "The Fact Checker." Guess what? The Turtle is wrong.

"(A)s demonstrated above, revenues have consistently failed to meet the projections that prompted the original tax-cut frenzy in Congress....The nation has a revenue problem and a spending problem — or else there would not be a deficit."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...g.html?hpid=z1
did we really need a fact checker for this?

the problem has been all along the tax cuts, Iraq war and drug company gift nothing else

piece-itpete 05-05-2011 11:01 AM
Strange, that's not what it says.

Pete

whell 05-05-2011 11:13 AM
We wouldn't have a revenue problem at all....if we didn't spend so damn much. :D

d-ray657 05-05-2011 11:31 AM
And the guy who can't pay his rent because he quit his management job to go to work for McDonalds doesn't have a revenue problem either.

Regards,

D-Ray

whell 05-05-2011 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ray657 (Post 62142)
And the guy who can't pay his rent because he quit his management job to go to work for McDonalds doesn't have a revenue problem either.

Regards,

D-Ray
Right, because they're hiring up the street at Burger King.

d-ray657 05-05-2011 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whell (Post 62144)
Right, because they're hiring up the street at Burger King.
OK, I guess I wasn't clear. It should read:

And the guy who can't pay his rent because he quit his management job to INSTEAD go to work for McDonalds doesn't have a revenue problem either.

Regards,

D-Ray

BlueStreak 05-05-2011 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ray657 (Post 62142)
And the guy who can't pay his rent because he quit his management job to go to work for McDonalds doesn't have a revenue problem either.

Regards,

D-Ray
Bingo! The "free traders" who thought we were going to maintain our largess off of revenues generated by a "service economy" are the true jesters in the court of American economics/politics. That, and I seem to recall being told "Everything is going high tech. No more high paying manufacturing jobs." a few decades ago as well. How's that working out?

Little manufacturing = Little prosperity. Low wages = Poor consumerism.

Dave

BlueStreak 05-05-2011 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whell (Post 62144)
Right, because they're hiring up the street at Burger King.
Which still isn't worth a hoot.

Dave

piece-itpete 05-05-2011 11:52 AM
So, I don't have a spending problem, I have a revenue problem. Who will give me more money?

Pete

finnbow 05-05-2011 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whell (Post 62134)
We wouldn't have a revenue problem at all....if we didn't spend so damn much. :D
Hearing this from a Republican made me think of a multiple choice question:

Listening to a Republican speak of the virtues of spending restraint is:

a. Like listening to Charlie Sheen speak of the virtues of sobriety.

b. Like listening to a hooker speak of the virtues of virginity.

c. Like listening to Ted Haggard speak of the virtues of marital fidelity.

d. All of the above.

BlueStreak 05-05-2011 12:10 PM
d.?

Dave

finnbow 05-05-2011 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak (Post 62153)
d.?

Dave
How'd you guess? And so quickly? That was supposed to be a deep, thought-provoking question. And you go and spoil it for everybody. Commie.:D

whell 05-05-2011 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ray657 (Post 62145)
OK, I guess I wasn't clear. It should read:

And the guy who can't pay his rent because he quit his management job to INSTEAD go to work for McDonalds doesn't have a revenue problem either.

Regards,

D-Ray
If the guy, wherever he works, drives a Ferarri to and from work but is on a Ford Taurus budget, he's got a spending problem. I'm expected to live within my means, and I sometimes need to adjust my spending accordingly to do that. Why can't Uncle Sam?

Fast_Eddie 05-05-2011 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete (Post 62148)
So, I don't have a spending problem, I have a revenue problem. Who will give me more money?

Pete
You're not working hard enough Pete.

whell 05-05-2011 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 62149)
Hearing this from a Republican made me think of a multiple choice question:

Listening to a Republican speak of the virtues of spending restraint is:

a. Like listening to Charlie Sheen speak of the virtues of sobriety.

b. Like listening to a hooker speak of the virtues of virginity.

c. Like listening to Ted Haggard speak of the virtues of marital fidelity.

d. All of the above.
Of course, putting Donkeys in charge of spending restraint is like putting the fox in the chicken coupe, and giving him several adult beverages to wash down dinner.

Fast_Eddie 05-05-2011 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whell (Post 62158)
If the guy, wherever he works, drives a Ferarri to and from work but is on a Ford Taurus budget, he's got a spending problem. I'm expected to live within my means, and I sometimes need to adjust my spending accordingly to do that. Why can't Uncle Sam?
This is all way off the mark. That's not what it is at all. It's not a job and spending thing. It's a buying and paying for it thing. We (American voters) walked up to the counter and said "I'll take a Social Security, a Medicare, a Medicaid, aaaaannnd, let's seee- how 'bout a side order of wars in the middle-east". Then the kid at the counter said "Oooookay. That'll be $100 Billion." And we refused to pay.

Fast_Eddie 05-05-2011 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whell (Post 62160)
Of course, putting Donkeys in charge of spending restraint is like putting the fox in the chicken coupe, and giving him several adult beverages to wash down dinner.
You're ignoring the elephant in the room.

noonereal 05-05-2011 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whell (Post 62160)
Of course, putting Donkeys in charge of spending restraint is like putting the fox in the chicken coupe, and giving him several adult beverages to wash down dinner.
i thought the gop gave us iraq, pharmacological welfare and tax cuts

Fast_Eddie 05-05-2011 02:05 PM
http://addictinginfo.org/wp-content/...03-195x110.jpg

whell 05-05-2011 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie (Post 62161)
This is all way off the mark. That's not what it is at all. It's not a job and spending thing. It's a buying and paying for it thing. We (American voters) walked up to the counter and said "I'll take a Social Security, a Medicare, a Medicaid, aaaaannnd, let's seee- how 'bout a side order of wars in the middle-east". Then the kid at the counter said "Oooookay. That'll be $100 Billion." And we refused to pay.
During this last election, a majority of Americans walked up the the customer service counter and asked to return a number of items, but found out that the customer service counter was closed.

piece-itpete 05-05-2011 02:24 PM
Perhaps our federal employees should work harder (taps nose).

Perhaps I can force a raise at the barrel of a gun.

Pete

flacaltenn 05-05-2011 02:35 PM
You are very accurate here BlueStreak:

Quote:
Bingo! The "free traders" who thought we were going to maintain our largess off of revenues generated by a "service economy" are the true jesters in the court of American economics/politics. That, and I seem to recall being told "Everything is going high tech. No more high paying manufacturing jobs." a few decades ago as well. How's that working out?

Little manufacturing = Little prosperity. Low wages = Poor consumerism.
Except that with or with-out free-traders, MOST of those manufacturing jobs were just inevitably going offshore. This was trend since I was a pup listening to cheap Japanese audio. What SHOULD be done is to make most of that labor irrelevent. By encouraging 21st century manufacturing research and develop HERE in the USA. For the most part, we COULD take back a lot of middle class jobs even in automated factories.

And remember that the pressure is on ALL stratas of the workforce. Lower rank contends with illegal immigration, middle ranks have to compete with offshore labor, and the upper ranks are now being infiltrated by foreign college students "taking the courses that American kids just won't take" and getting H1B Visas to stay and work. Even doctors are not immune to global labor competition.

So -- I don't want to spend a lot of time blaming the morons who pushed the service economy. And the free-traders (like me) more accurately say.... "The work will be performed at the most effective level." We haven't even begun to design effective manufacturing systems. Look at stuff like IBM's Watson and how knowledge systems like that would change the whole corporate profile.

So we have to do what we can do best given that the assembly line model is gone. And that is gonna take a commitment to higher, smartter education and a govt that doesn't put too many barriers in the way of starting capital ventures. So that we can design truly innovative automation and new models of manufacturing and distribution of goods..

BTW: Besides, the wars and the downturn in the economy, REVENUES are being killed by the fact that SocSec and Medicare are going negative in income from payroll much sooner than expected. Wasn't too long ago that the CongressCritters could count on STEALING 300 or 350 BILLION dollars from peoples' paychecks in excess FICA payments. That's largely a REVENUE issue if you're the one doing the stealing.....

Fast_Eddie 05-05-2011 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whell (Post 62165)
During this last election, a majority of Americans walked up the the customer service counter and asked to return a number of items, but found out that the customer service counter was closed.
Like hell. Tea Hatters thought cutting everything was a great idea until the people the elected tried to do it. Now they're getting an earfull. I'm thinking that sign I posted on the last page may be more the rule than the exception. They only want to cut welfare and benefits for illegals. They didn't know they were voting to take Dad's Social Security and Grammy's Medicare. They're not so keen on that.

whell 05-05-2011 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie (Post 62184)
Like hell. Tea Hatters thought cutting everything was a great idea until the people the elected tried to do it. Now they're getting an earfull. I'm thinking that sign I posted on the last page may be more the rule than the exception. They only want to cut welfare and benefits for illegals. They didn't know they were voting to take Dad's Social Security and Grammy's Medicare. They're not so keen on that.
I dunno about that. The right keeps pushing the issue.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...74453D20110505

mulester7 05-05-2011 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete (Post 62148)
So, I don't have a spending problem, I have a revenue problem. Who will give me more money?

Pete
.....well, here's a copy & paste that tells you who FOR SURE won't give you a dime.....



Profits At Largest 500 Corps Grew By 81% In 2010

Under a Socialist?????????????

One of the dominating justifications that the right uses for its economic policies is that lowering taxes and regulations on society’s wealthiest members and big businesses will cause an explosion of wealth that will eventually “trickle down” to the vast majority of Americans. Yet while a record number of Americans are receiving some form of government assistance as unemployment remains high and the economy is in shambles, one group is doing very well: corporate America. The 2011 Fortune 500 list was unveiled today, surveying the growth and profits of the nation’s largest 500 corporations. It found that the profits of these companies “soared 81″ percent over the past year, causing the editors of Fortune to say that “we’ve rarely seen such a stark gulf between the fortunes of the 500 and those of ordinary Americans”:

All told, the Fortune 500 generated nearly $10.8 trillion in total revenues last year, up 10.5%. Total profits soared 81%. But guess who didn’t benefit much from this giant wave of cash? Millions of U.S. workers stuck mired in a stagnant job market. [...] Nevertheless, we’ve rarely seen such a stark gulf between the fortunes of the 500 and those of ordinary Americans.

At the same time, corporate tax revenue as a percentage of GDP is lower than it has been in years, meaning that not only is the wealth not trickling down, but that these big firms are also becoming less and less likely to pay their fair share.

BlueStreak 05-06-2011 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flacaltenn (Post 62167)
You are very accurate here BlueStreak:



Except that with or with-out free-traders, MOST of those manufacturing jobs were just inevitably going offshore. This was trend since I was a pup listening to cheap Japanese audio. What SHOULD be done is to make most of that labor irrelevent. By encouraging 21st century manufacturing research and develop HERE in the USA. For the most part, we COULD take back a lot of middle class jobs even in automated factories.

And remember that the pressure is on ALL stratas of the workforce. Lower rank contends with illegal immigration, middle ranks have to compete with offshore labor, and the upper ranks are now being infiltrated by foreign college students "taking the courses that American kids just won't take" and getting H1B Visas to stay and work. Even doctors are not immune to global labor competition.

So -- I don't want to spend a lot of time blaming the morons who pushed the service economy. And the free-traders (like me) more accurately say.... "The work will be performed at the most effective level." We haven't even begun to design effective manufacturing systems. Look at stuff like IBM's Watson and how knowledge systems like that would change the whole corporate profile.

So we have to do what we can do best given that the assembly line model is gone. And that is gonna take a commitment to higher, smartter education and a govt that doesn't put too many barriers in the way of starting capital ventures. So that we can design truly innovative automation and new models of manufacturing and distribution of goods..

BTW: Besides, the wars and the downturn in the economy, REVENUES are being killed by the fact that SocSec and Medicare are going negative in income from payroll much sooner than expected. Wasn't too long ago that the CongressCritters could count on STEALING 300 or 350 BILLION dollars from peoples' paychecks in excess FICA payments. That's largely a REVENUE issue if you're the one doing the stealing.....
Do you now, or have you ever worked in manufacturing? I have, almost my entire life. Save for my time in the Navy. And, I come from a family of factory workers, management, engineering and blue collar.

From what I've seen, incompetent management kills a factory quicker than any politician could dream of. Even the high tech, world class type of factory. Put a dumbass in the plant managers office and kiss it goodbye. Jimmy Hoffa couldn't kill productivity with such lightning speed. And it usually starts with "cost cutting", yessiree..........

And there is a universe of "other people" to be blamed when it happens.:rolleyes:

Dave

d-ray657 05-06-2011 07:17 AM
It found that the profits of these companies “soared 81″ percent over the past year, causing the editors of Fortune to say that “we’ve rarely seen such a stark gulf between the fortunes of the 500 and those of ordinary Americans”:

This is a comment from that bastion of capitalism, Fortune 500? :confused::eek:

It appears that the income chasm has grown so large that it is no longer just a lefty issue.

Regards,

D-Ray

piece-itpete 05-06-2011 07:40 AM
Mule, everything I've got came from me/my employer. Since I've been in the workforce (right out of HS) the government has done nothing but increase withholding.

Pete

d-ray657 05-06-2011 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete (Post 62200)
Mule, everything I've got came from me/my employer. Since I've been in the workforce (right out of HS) the government has done nothing but increase withholding.

Pete
And shot Bin Laden. :cool:

And expanded and maintained an interstate highway system for you to cruise on; and provided a pool of unemployment resources should you become one of the unlucky unemployed; and provided disaster relief for your neighbors; and provided a justice system that avoids anarchy; and provided you cleaner air and water; and provided you with a safer supply of food; and don't forget about Al Gore inventing the internet :rolleyes:; kept the airwaves from becoming a cacophony (I'll leave it to your judgment whether you think that would be better than the crap that comes over them now); and provided safe shipping routes so that your employer or the people you do business with can engage in international trade; or provided a weather information system that helps lessen the impact of natural disasters; and on and on and on.

Regards,

D-Ray

finnbow 05-06-2011 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ray657 (Post 62202)
And shot Bin Laden. :cool:

And expanded and maintained an interstate highway system for you to cruise on; and provided a pool of unemployment resources should you become one of the unlucky unemployed; and provided disaster relief for your neighbors; and provided a justice system that avoids anarchy; and provided you cleaner air and water; and provided you with a safer supply of food; and don't forget about Al Gore inventing the internet :rolleyes:; kept the airwaves from becoming a cacophony (I'll leave it to your judgment whether you think that would be better than the crap that comes over them now); and provided safe shipping routes so that your employer or the people you do business with can engage in international trade; or provided a weather information system that helps lessen the impact of natural disasters; and on and on and on.

Regards,

D-Ray
He meant that other than those things, the gov't has done nothing (except under Reagan and the Bush's, of course). Under those Presidents, the government made all women beautiful, all children behave like saints, and all dogs pick up their own messes - not to mention perfect weather for everyone's vacations - Miracle workers.

whell 05-06-2011 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak (Post 62197)
Do you now, or have you ever worked in manufacturing? I have, almost my entire life. Save for my time in the Navy. And, I come from a family of factory workers, management, engineering and blue collar.

From what I've seen, incompetent management kills a factory quicker than any politician could dream of.
Dave
I used to work in a coke (as in coal) foundry. Local and federal environmental departments killed them off pretty efficiently.

piece-itpete 05-06-2011 08:31 AM
D, um, thanks :)

Try building a highway lately? That justice system is getting a wee bit tangled. And I thought business was evil? Let alone keeping the shipping lanes open! ;)

Anyway I'm talking about time off, etc.

Pete

whell 05-06-2011 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 62204)
Under those Presidents, the government made all women beautiful, all children behave like saints, and all dogs pick up their own messes - not to mention perfect weather for everyone's vacations - Miracle workers.
You've apparently never met my kids. They're no better or worse under Obama.... :D

finnbow 05-06-2011 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete (Post 62209)
D, um, thanks :)

Try building a highway lately?
Yep. Just finishing up a real big one here.
http://www.iccproject.com/

piece-itpete 05-06-2011 08:36 AM
Wonder how much was spent in litigation. Are you SURE you're pleased with killing off a rare and absolutely useless form of algae, that only lived in a puddle that used to exist where a bridge abutment is now?

Pete

d-ray657 05-06-2011 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete (Post 62209)
D, um, thanks :)

Try building a highway lately? That justice system is getting a wee bit tangled. And I thought business was evil? Let alone keeping the shipping lanes open! ;)

Anyway I'm talking about time off, etc.

Pete
So you don't get federal holidays off? On most of them I can feel safe about not wearing a tie to work.

Regards,

D-Ray

piece-itpete 05-06-2011 08:37 AM
I thought NAFTA was going to be modified, to help US jobs. That wonderful idea was going to, what, give us a new three day weekend? ;)

Pete

piece-itpete 05-06-2011 08:38 AM
And the existing ones have been around since I entered the workforce.

Pete

finnbow 05-06-2011 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete (Post 62214)
Are you SURE you're pleased with killing off a rare and absolutely useless form of algae, that only lived in a puddle that used to exist where a bridge abutment is now?

Pete
Pete, I'm a civil engineer. I'd strangle those algae with my bare hands. Concrete rules!!!:D


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