Pentagon report on economic warfare.
 

Here it is, if anyone has the will to digest it. I don't have the time at the moment.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/49755779/E...evin-D-Freeman

Chas

The upshot of it all is that that terrorists may ultimately be as harmful to the country as Wall St. was.

Admittedly, I haven't read the entire thing----yet. Basically, what I get from it is that "lax, unenforced and ineffective regulation" leaves our economic system open to severe abuses and attacks from both foreign enemies such as terrorist organizations and domestic enemies such as "greed ridden capitalists".

Kind of a no-brainer if you think about it.

Probably why people who have no brains oppose regulation?:p

Dave

I finally read the whole thing, and you do have a point to a certain extent.

His point was, if I deciphered it correctly, is the "greed ridden capitalists", along with you and I, are in danger of being busted out and left crying in the bathroom floor of the casino.

Considering this was written app two years ago, it's almost prophetic as to what appears to be happening now.

The author makes a strong case. I only hope that I'm not the ONLY person who has read this, and we have some really smart people who are hiding in the bowels of the government and fixin' to screw the shoe on the other foot...and make it hurt like hell.

From what I'm seeing from the fools on the hill, one bunch is still trying to spend ourselves rich while the other bunch is trying to figger out the best way to go broke. Probably more like just win the next election.

As Noon pointed out during a lucid moment (couldn't help myself Noon), all wars are based on economics. And if we manage to get out of this without WWIII, we should count our blessings.

I've even noticed that some agency has come out and said that a limited nuclear exchange would help offset the effects of global warming. They don't run this kind of shit up the flagpole to see if anybody salutes it without a reason.

Personally, I think we're screwed.

Chas

"..a limited nuclear exchange would help offset the effects of global warming...." Now, THAT'S crazy.

Speaking of crazy. Guess who has been having apocalyptic dreams?

Looting, rioting, Marshall Law, tanks in the streets, soldiers (And not all of them American. Some of them European and Canadian sent here to help "restore order".), crazy radio reports of death counts, arrests and people fleeing the country. That's about all I recall, no real specifics, except the president is on the radio talking, so I take it he isn't among the dead. Just trying to make my way across town to rescue my sister and listening to the radio in the Dakota. Being hassled every few minutes by people in uniform demanding to know who I am and where I'm going. Dead bodies, soldiers, cops, burning destroyed vehicles and buildings everywhere.

Wild, scary stuff.

Dave

"From what I'm seeing from the fools on the hill, one bunch is still trying to spend ourselves rich while the other bunch is trying to figger out the best way to go broke. Probably more like just win the next election."


Isn't this what we've always had?

Dave

The writing was on the wall for quite a while before the 2008 debacle. I do not see a need for economic bogeymen to explain the economic downturn. The thought of having someone or a group to blame is comforting, but a system as complex as international finance can become quite unpredictable in its behavior without any nefarious action by rational actors.

Do you think that a complex system like international finance is capable of being understood enough by rational "regulators" to be deterministic, such that, they can regulate inputs to bring predictable outputs? Do they know and understand the system?

Was it Wall Street or Barney, Clinton, Fannie, & Freddie that set 2008 in motion? I seem to recall subprime loans and CDSs underlying the mess. One can blame lack of regulation or the regulation that was there as the problem.

Of course, not that your friendly bank didn't take some liberties.

Look at it this way; a mortgage broker gets John Doe a lender, takes 1 point ($2000 on a $200,000 loand). Lender charges 2 points, maybe 3 ($4000 or $6000) and borrower pays all closing costs (Quick question what other country has Title Companies?).

Lender securitises the loan and sells it to Fannie or Freddie. Who is now on the hook if the load defaults? Look in the nearest mirror oh taxpayer.

Wall Street gens up something called Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs) which in truth should have been called RCLs (Repackaged Crappy Loans). Regulation? Hell yes, by rights the bastards should be in jail.

Of course you surely realize all this started years ago when the Supremes legalized bribery. Our mortgage laws were designed by thieves for thieves.

If you really want to know where the fault lies I would refer you to Dana Millbank's OpEd in today's WaPo "Foreclosures; The big banks reign of errors".

If you would like to sleep soundly only do business with a local bank.:rolleyes:

Are you saying that there were no nefarious actions on Wall St. that were, at least in part, responsible for this debacle? If so, I have a bridge for you.

You're correct that the problems were know about in advance of 2008, and steps that could have been taken to avoid the crisis weren't. considering that money moves on a global scale, I'm not sure that any steps taken in the US would have been enough to totally avert the crisis.

Whether the financial meltdown is a result of a system that is rotten, or a result of parties taking advantage of the weaknesses therein to attack the stability of the US, or simply enrich themselves, is a topic open for discussion.

I suspect it's a combination of all of the above, the percentages involved is where I'm at a loss.

Reinstalling some controls on the system make sense to me, along with hiring some people who are knowledgeable enough to enforce them. Your average flatfoot ain't gonna cut it.

Now simply because I don't know about it doesn't mean it's not happening, but has anyone else noticed any actions on regulatory reform or enforcement?

Chas

If Bonehead and McConnell don't block her Elizabeth Warren is the best bet for someone to jerk a knot in their tails.:rolleyes:

But in accordance with their master's orders the Goopers are trying to gut regulation.:p

On the subject of whether these things can be regulated, they can. Canada was not required to bailout a single bank simply because if you tried to peddle Derivatives and CDOs in the GWN you would wind up in Kingston Penitentary. They are suffering somewhat because of the whole fiasco just like every other country, but bribery is illegal there.

No, I'm proposing that there is no way that one can legislate optimum outcomes for a complex system like international finance due to a lack of understanding. Ideally, the market would keep everyone acting rationally, but individual rational actions can still bring about instability in the system. Dealing with a myriad of regulations and political folly simply makes the system more complex; thus, even more difficult to determine outcomes beforehand. If a system of regulation can be gamed, then someone will find the means.

But see post # 13.:D

Yeah, right! Dodd-Frank have such a pristine record of knowing what the hell they are doing.

Does Canada have Fannie and Freddie?

Why on earth would they need them? Home ownership in Canada is slightly higher than here. Very simply mortgage system, you want a mortgage you go to your bank, tell them where the house is and what the price is. They do all the title search - no extra charge. They check your credit worthiess - no extra charge. If they agree they offer a 5/25 mortgage usually although you could ask for shorter terms. What 5/25 means is that the mortgage is good for 25 years but the interest rate is re-negotiated every 5 years. Normally this is a benefit to both sides since the bank does not need a crystal ball and can offer good rates.

My mortgage in Ottawa had $600 total costs and was going along fine until Volker decided to fix the economy. Was told that the final 5 years would be 20% - ouch. I approached my bank and said I will pay off the balance but I need time to cash an insurance policy. Bank said OK, but the insurance company was flooded with similar requests.

Weeks pass and the bank phones and says "Mr. B if it would be possible to put some money down we would appreciate it." So I paid them what I could, about half. couple of weeks later when the check came from the insurance company I paid the balance and thanked the bank for their patience.

That was the same bank that when an error forced me to wire $200 up to cover a check I had already written, found their error, corrected my balance and put in another $100 as an apology. Can you see a big U.S. bank doing that?


So why would they ever need to have the taxpayer back loans made by crooked banks and agents out of sheer greed.:rolleyes:

I agree. Fannie and Freddie ought not exist.

Does three make a crowd?

Chas

It is not only Fannie and Freddie, you have to get rid of Derivatives, securatized morgages, mortgage brokers and title companies. The whole mortgage system sucks and only encourages theft. You might toss lobbyists while you are at it.

The Supremes say lobbying is covered by the First ammendment "citizen's right to petition". Really? So when did China, and Abu Dhabii, and other countries become "citizens", and since when is a $100 bill a petition?

Sorry, but the whole financial system is so corrupt that the smell is noticeable at the 200 mile limit