Incarceration in the US
 

Conservatives would say that the liberal environment at the Washington Post is capable of infecting anyone affiliated with it. On the other hand, my respect for Michael Gerson as a somewhat objective observer has grown in the past few months. His recent column about incarceration in the US highlighted rather than avoided troubling facts about the US justice system. It is certainly a more enlightened view of a serious social problem than one might expect from Dub's main speechwriter.

On that topic, I would like to see more reporting on the growing commercial prison industry. The lobbying group for that industry drafted the Arizona detention law for suspected undocumented workers. It has also had a hand in crafting "prison friendly" legislation for other states. Sounds like a dirty business to me.

Regards,

D-Ray

We decided that we'd lock everyone up instead of using the community to punish or restrict criminal behavior. It actually ties into folks like Phelps, etc, and how we as free people are not allowed to handle them.

It's disgraceful, the percentage we lock up, and a serious smear on our future legacy.

And agreed, the commercial prison system is disturbing, but it's more a result of police/guard unions than an evil conspiracy methinks.

Great topic D!

Pete

And the number of people we lock up for reefer is simply crazy in terms of the costs to society (both in terms of dollars and introducing the reefer inmates to the ways of the truly incorrigible).

I've seen the prison guards' contracts, and they for sure aren't getting rich. I don't think it's a good swap to spend close to the same amount contracting out the system where, instead of officers earning a decent living, a corporate system is profiting from crime. It's bad policy to delegate a fundamental responsibility of government to the private sector. For example, recidivism actually is good for the bottom line of the prison corps. That creates less incentive to run a program that has some hope of preparing an inmate for a return to society. in the long run, policy choices that affect the proper allocation of resources are made by corporate boards rather than elected public officials.

I agree that social/community pressure should play a larger role in modifying anti-social behavior. On the other hand when it gets to meting out punishment, vigilante action does not serve the communities' interests. It invites arrest, conviction and punishment imposed in short order by the mob. (It also puts lawyers out of work:eek:)

Regards,

D-ray

I'm not arguing for mob rule (demo-cracy :)) but what exactly did we do before we built 8 million prisons?

Your local police force profits from crime every day. Gone are the days they worked for us.

Pete

What a load of crap - liberal my arse. Charles Krauthammer, Michael (baby face) Gearson, George Will and the latest wiingnut Jennifer Rubin who is slightly to the right of Ghenghis Kahn and one lonely liberal E.J.Dionne. Gene Robinson is more of an independent to my mind. Fred Hiatt is noot my idea of a liberal either.:rolleyes:

Regarding Gearson's topic I see California is now making it a misdemeanor to be caught with an ounce or less, about time.

In Ohio, minor quantities, depending on how they are packaged, are a minor misdemeanor, a waiverable ticket. But if you posses it when driving, it's an automatic no-court-neccessary 6 month drivers' license suspension.

Heck, a guy locally got popped using his whole house as a greenhouse, they were living in a bedroom, he didn't even get jail time.

Pete

He's very lucky not to live here. Here, the cops will stop if they see a man walking and ask him 'where is he going' and if he needs a ride. If he accepts a ride they automaticly search him. If he has 1 single pill in his pocket without the ''prescription bottle'' in his pocket he IS going to jail. No ands if's or buts about it. Once he makes bond and goes to court, he can be cleared if he can prove to the judge that he had a legal script the day he was caught possesing the pill without his dated bottle with him. I do think that is taking it way to far. I mean hell, they turn child molesters back on the street but a man can't have a daily pill without the whole big bottle stuffed in his pocket :confused:

I mean really, this is the sticks. I don't think a feller is going to walk all the way to the rinky-dink town of 312 made up of church folk just to see if he can find one druggie out of the bunch to sell a single pill to for 5 or 10 bucks. That sorta thing rattles the dickens outta me.

The whole "war on drugs" is a farce and a waste of money. If someone wants to fry his brain on dope let him, Darwin Rules.

I think the Police imposed a lot more rough justice than they do now; people lifted for minor crimes accidentally falling down-stairs, slipping on a wet floor and cracking their head against the toilet bowl. I'm not saying that nowadays the Police are saints, but the law is increasingly being used by Solicitors acting for the defense and suing for substantial damages. If imposing tougher jail sentences makes the streets safer is that bad? In some ways yes. The idea of being banged up for possession of just enough cannabis for personal use is crazy. My daughter and her partner smoke it, they grow it themselves because some of the shit available on the street is wildly strong; a relaxing smoke can turn into something nasty, a bit like having a quiet dram and finding out later that it's home distilled and so strong that it's damn dangerous, possibly lethal. The thing with very strong liquer is that once it passes a certain point, the first thing it does is numb your taste buds. Same with skunk, you don't know what you're smoking until the effects kick in.

As for street safety? I would far rather pass a group of people chilling out with a splif or two than run into half a dozen football fans pissed enough to be dangerous.

Law enforcement and corrections is an industry. And one of the few which is expanding.

Chas

but it does not need to

But among government services that are candidates for privatization, aren't these two the most dangerous - to our liberty. I can imagine a police force of Pinkerton boys and the reintroduction of debtors prisons.

Regards,

D-Ray

Why is it that the folks who like to complain that our prisons are too posh and swanky never seem to be in a hurry to go live in one?

'Cuz, maybe, deep down inside, even they know they are full of shyte?

Dave

What bugs me is that being caught with a small amount of maryjane can get you a long sentence. Commiting robbery with a gun gets littlle more than a slap on the wrist. Any crime commited with a gun should send you upriver for 10 years or more.

What more does a jail need, than be (generally) clean and (absolutely) secure? In another life I've seen the inside of a couple of them. If someone wanted the taxpayers to get us a new flatscreen with surround and perhaps a t-bone or two we'd have been fine with it, but most would've said 'suckers' under their breath.

That said, I was in one in partic that was truly awful, disgustingly filthy, and a darn good candidate for being a poster boy for privatization. But most are indeed clean.

Comb, I'm fine with my local cops knocking some heads, in general. But over here at least, a large amount of them no longer work for us, they work for the system. D, this is where I both agree and disagree with you. It doesn't have to be privatized to become corrupt. Police - judges - fines - pay police - judges - fines ad infinum.

Wait till MAD gets their way and illegal BOC gets dropped to .05%. Then we can stick all kinds of suburban housewives in jail and clean out their savings accounts.

Pete

When the states started making Noknock warrants legal was when the system started downhill. Despite the Justice department's arguments it does violate the 4th Ammendment. A little considered argument against noknock is that it also violates the 6th Ammendment because the police will never tell you who told them that you had drugs in the house.

If they do find anything they get to keep all of your possessions, so naturally they are bound to "find" something - even if they have to bring it with them.

Rob, surely your not saying the police would ever do anything not perfectly legal? Shocked, shocked I am :p

Pete

Come visit Prince George's County, MD. Their police force is kind of a cross between the Gestapo and the Keystone Cops. Really.

But leave your dogs at home.

I always wonder what the BART police would have said had those 6 people not capture the action on cell phones.

If I was a cop, I wouldn't have issued a citation in their situation. I mean heck ... they didn't have any time to spare. The baby was breething air 6 minutes after they reached the hospital parking lot. Sure, 102 is fast, but it was on the interstate. People blow my doors off everytime I get on one .. even if I speed up to 80 .. it seems like it still isn't fast enough for the average Joe and they pass on by. So, why not give an honest couple with an honest excuse for speeding a break?

http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_17015306

Problem is it comes down to trust and common sense. In the 1950's, if a child was caught scrumping apples it wasn't unknown for a cop to give him a cuff round the ear. Not hard enough to hurt, but hard enough to embarrass; to show him up in front of his friends. If the child was caught playing on a bomb-site left over from WW2 the cuff would be hard enough to hurt. Better to leave a temporary mark than have to explain to the parents that little Johnny's under half a ton of rubble because a wall collapsed.

But what would happen now if a kid comes home crying that a policeman had hit him? Would the parents consider that there may have been a valid reason, or react with anger first?

I hear that the police force "behaves stupidly" over that way too. :p

Here? Lawsuits. The parents would see the marks on their kid and see dollar signs. $$$$$. Then, this would lead to more regulation disallowing police to "assault" people.

Actually, I believe such things have already come to pass, both here and in your corner of the world.

Dave

That was more related to the police assuming a black man didn't belong in an "upscale" neighborhood. They were wrong, it was his legal residence.

Dave

An honest mistake.

I thought that everyone knew that wealthy black folks lived in deluxe apartments in the sky.

Chas

Comb, I see your concern. Unfortunately the folks I'm talking about either aren't kids or the kind of kids that are long past crying, and I'm not talking about age, sadly.

Pete

ROTFLMAO!!!

Pete

One would think so, but apparently not. We have a neighborhood, just about a mile down the road from here. It's been a predominantly African-American neighborhood for a very long time. But, at some point it became community for the affluent blacks in the area. There is probably not a single home over there that goes for less than half a million.
I drove my bigot brother over there once, and told him to look around, "Yeah, so?", "Nice place, Huh?", "It's f**kin' beautiful. So what?", "It's nearly 100% black."...........He still didn't get it. He told me a little later that I was an asshole for putting him, "in danger like that.":confused:

In danger of what?

They were probably afraid we were there to rob them..................

Dave

LOL, I remember when I bough my first home (inner city) my dad said he'd never come visit me there. To dangerous.

My neighbors, old Jewish couple, Mexican family, a family from France, a mixed marriage couple.... oh yeah and on the other side of town was a poor black area.

A lot of suburban folks are afraid of the mean cold city. I would add, if they don't know, maybe they should be.

Pete

Yeah, you gotta watch out for those dang French...They might force you to eat snails.

Dave

My brother isn't "suburban", he's a backwoods redneck. I've never met anyone more afraid of black people in my life. Of course, HE doesn't think of it that way. But, that's what it is; Fear. I've observed the look on his face stuck in a crowd full of blacks. Fear, plain and simple. Like there's a Grizzly Bear snapping at his buttocks. I find it hilarious.

Dave