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Faith and Reason
I'm creating this thread for any continuation of a general discussion of faith and Christianity that was forming an unrelated tangent in a political topic. What precedes this point can be found in 'The Era of Trump' topic, sort of starting with #167, though there's some in previous posts.
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This is of itself sufficient reason to feel that conditioning eternal outcomes on belief isn't what one would think of as just. |
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God's gift is (was) the Holy Spirit. My eternal outcome does not rise from my belief, I did not created God just by thinking He exists. It may seem unjust to you, but you are not pushing the envelope of human thought, you're hitting the wall where your ego ends. |
It's IN you, Mike, if you're a natural born human.
Smaller than a mustard seed. Smaller than an electron microscope can capture. My proof is what you're seeing in the world, without believing. And no the fucking Romans didn't write the bible to manipulate people (as Finnbow suggested). :rolleyes: |
By that logic, if it's not in me, I'm not a natural born human. And since it's not physical, and undetectable, I'd better act like it's in me. Otherwise I could be a bind like the Monty Python witch test presented, one of these days....
This made me think of "Unhumans," a far-right propaganda book. Here's a little excerpt from one disapproving reaction: Quote:
(So, having made a religion thread, back we go to politics. May be hard to keep them apart going forward....) Note: I edited this message. Initially it said Unhumans was "planned for release before the election, then delayed at the last minute when it attracted too much negative attention." That's not true, I was thinking of another book, "Dawn's Early Light: Taking Back Washington to Save America." Written by Roberts of the Heritage Foundation; Vance did the foreward for this one. |
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Oh!, , Oh!, , Mr. Cotter, I know the answer! ..... To "manipulate" (control) people's . . . . MONEY!!!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._organizations Your welcome...... :rolleyes: ;) |
I was brought up RC, at an early age I rejected the concept of a higher being.
Later I also rejected Astrology, Reaki, Clairvoyance, Extraterrestrial visitations, Ghosts ect, they were also dumped due to the same reasoned thinking. For myself important things require the same level of reasoning, evidence is key, if something lacks evidence to support it I'm not interested in it. |
The question should be Faith or Reason?
One requires no proof to believe, the other searches for it in order to. |
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And Christianity ultimately became a world religion by virtue of various mandates/edicts issued by several Roman emperors. |
^^^ Eggzackly, they edited the collection of fairy tales.
On a side note, we are putting up all of our Krampus decorations today. Only xmas decorations we own. |
I always figured, if you want to start an argument.
A sure way is between two of different Cristian faiths on who's the right one. Or any two different religions for that matter. |
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Now you're going convert me into being a follower of Vance and Bannon. Do you have any evidence that you are not possessed by the devil ? Do you know the air speed of a laden swallow ? |
No evidence here. But neither do you have any similar evidence in your own case Proving a negative is known to be a bitch.
There's nothing like facing contradiction to make one harden one's attitudes. And the hard logic of ideology has this power of compulsion.I like you too, and thanks for that, but will it keep you from letting me drown if I don't float, or burning me if I do? |
Regarding the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, have you researched them any further since we discussed? I believe I'm going to order the book below, I've always loved the work of comic artist Will Eisner, and it will be interesting to see how he handles the tale.
https://www.librarything.com/work/220843 |
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I'll let you drown. I won't be the one who burns you. |
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I have the Book of Genesis illustrated by R. Crumb. Very tawdry, I'd recommend that as well. I don't know who 'forged' the PEZ. It's like Christ Jesus's 40 days in the desert, nobody was there except Jesus and the devil. Jesus didn't dictate it, so that chapter of the Bible was written by Satan (?) I don't claim to know. I know Satan is real, proven to me be empirical observation. Or hallucinations as Chicks stated. |
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They'll prescribed an anti-psychotic med that will make teeth fall out. edit- by that reasoning there will be no teeth to gnash in Hell. blah, blah, blah Happy Holidays |
It occurs to me that our eternal life may be analogous to our 'digital footprint' as it exists in multiple copies all over. There's just no way all the copies ever get deleted.
I'm currently trying to cope with the effects of my C: drive going south, so this sort of thing is on my mind.... |
Welcome to the Matrix. I'm going Linux in 2025.
Maybe there'll be a C drive; but by God I'm not backing up in the techno cloud. :) Leary=idiot Snowden=idiot Chicks Cap't Colonel come out to play |
A more informative book :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion |
The whole "Prove there is no god" is a silly argument, I can't prove there isn't a teapot orbiting Saturn, all I can do is look for evidence for there being a teapot orbiting Saturn, which there is not.
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When the seventh string runs out, this reality turns into a blazing lake of fire. And you can't leave. :p |
This is why you can't reason with some people, they start with a belief and then look for ways to support that belief.
It's the Anti-Science Method. Everything else is propaganda. |
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So who are the stupid? |
Concepts of faith and belief are entirely different, yet used interchangeably. If someone were to ask me if I believe in God, my honest answer will be I do not know. But for our universe to exist, there must be a higher power or so I believe. But who that is is beyond me and I leave it at that.
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don't forget that guys like Cat ain't motivated by their love of a benevolent creator, instead they are motivated by their fear of a fictional vengeful despot, exactly as the MEN who wrote that nonsense called "The Bible" wanted it to be. Hence the never ending mentions of things like "blazing lakes of fire" and such. |
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Quantum physics seems to demonstrate that the universe is stranger than we can imagine. Religion people love anything that doesn't make obvious sense about nature and the universe. They feel free to fit God into the gaps. But absence of evidence is not evidence of presence.
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I'm not asking about military HumInt, that's a whole different thing. IQ tests are part of a 'world' system designed to enslave people. There's a certain amount of truth to it, scientifically sound. |
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(and you're an alter ego of the Major. Nice try.) |
The God Delusion is an excellent book, I have read it 2 or 3 times.
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The older I get the more it sure seems when someone argues their faith and beliefs.
I wonder just who are they trying to convince? They, so unsure that talking someone else into also believing helps? Just my $0.02 anyway..... |
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When presented with fairy tales, being passed off as "real", all I've ever asked was "proof".... You can't prove there is a "christian God", and I can't prove there isn't. The difference here is, I've not once called you anything, like you've called me a "bully" for challenging your belief in whimsy. Personal attacks are the last refuge of one who has no means of proving their desperately held belief in the unprovable ;) Lastly, don't know any "major" beyond the obvious fact that this conversation has been a major failure on your part. Nice try, though......... :rolleyes: |
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Heard of The Scientific Method? |
I'm OK with other people and their faith, as long a it does no harm to themselves or others.
It's just not for me. |
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You titled the thread, Faith AND Reason. Guess you meant, Faith VS Reason, as the two are seemingly mutually exclusive by your decree. |
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:p |
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I used to give my younger brother a 'Gibbs' slap upside his head, now and then. (grin) |
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