More Classified Documents Found
 

Classified documents from Biden's vice presidency found at think tank

Of course the MAGAmorons have gone ape-shit trying to equivocate this with tRump's stash of stolen documents. The documents found at Biden's former office were reported the same day and the National Archives took possession of them the following morning. The MAGAnuts don't want to acknowledge tRump's theft of the dozens of documents that the FBI had to go gather up are two different things.

There is plenty of reason to see Trump's appropriation of classified documents as knowing, willful, and continuing. None of this seems to apply to the documents at Biden's old office.

The office I was in when I retired had one of the John A. Walker vaults in it. Either case is a mismanagement of classified information. And down here at the peon level the "punishment" would be basically the same.

The trolls & bots are having conniption fits screaming that "mainstream media" isn't covering the story as "mainstream media" is covering the story. Can't wait until the evil triumvirate (Hannity/Ingram/Carlson) get hold of the story. Probably having fist fights over who gets to cover it first.

Joe Biden, when asked about the documents at Mar a Lago:

“How that could possibly happen. How one – anyone could be that irresponsible. And I thought, ‘What data was in there that may compromise sources and methods?’ By that I mean, names of people who helped or th– et cetera. And it just– totally irresponsible.”

What Trump has said before about sharing classified information

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trum...ry?id=88160095

Sorry, dumbass, there's simply no comparison. :rolleyes:

For someone who claims he isn't a Trumpkin, you sure are a Trumpkin. Fool.

Why is there "no comparison", dumbass? Because CNN and the Dem talking heads on the Hill say there's "no comparison"?

BTW, dumbass, I wasn't making a comparison to the goings-on at Mar a Lago and the documents found at Biden's thoughtless tank. But Biden's specific comments can apply just as aptly to both scenarios.

Has Biden claimed the "owns" the documents? Has he threatened the DOJ / FBI for (correctly) involving themselves? Get a clue.

There's no comparison between Biden and Trump. Biden is an honest man. Your Dear Leader is a lying demagogue.

And do you seriously think the Koch-funded "think tanks" offer legitimate, unbiased information? ROFL.

I knew something would come along to draw our boy whell out. Reich-wing media got him so wound up he couldn't help himself. Biden was being nice when he commented on tRump's theft of classified documents. That's what gentlemen do. The MAGA (mini) minds are so frantically trying to make a trump size mountain out of a Biden size molehill that they may even forget about Hunter's laptop. Hoping against hope that something will be found to diminish the crimes that trump committed. They're setting up for a great hue and cry when there are no search warrants executed, no indictments handed down and no prosecutions forthcoming. Maybe they should boycott something?

Biden staff discovered the documents and turned them over voluntarily and are cooperating with Archives and DOJ. Trump appears to have deliberately stolen the documents, hid them, lied about it, refused to cooperate and the documents were only recovered with a search warrant after over a year of lies and obfuscation.

Had Trump cooperated like Biden did, he wouldn't be in legal trouble. But he fucked around with Archives and DOJ and found out. Fuck him. Bigly.

The Federalists, of course, get it completely wrong. Sigh.

https://thefederalist.com/2023/01/10...-of-joe-biden/

Weak tea, Mike. Sorry...:rolleyes:

Because as soon as they discovered the documents, Biden declassified them. Case closed. :D

They are apples and oranges; the self-reporting does matter. There is also a good chance that Bidens office was cleared to a certain level, even though it was a private office. "If" the documents were stored properly the investigation will probably find no major violations.

Just someone's observation that has dealt with classified material at a high level my whole adult life (still do) and has done about a dozen plenary investigations of mismanagement of classified material.

The truth of matters none to those who remind me of a contortionist with their evolution of arguments.

So far there is zero evidence from Biden of willful wrong doings, zero. Promptly returned folders after being discovered. Turned it over to the Justice Department to handle.

Verses the denials hiding refusals covering up.......

All of that does matter!

What I see that is very telling. How far and to what degrees the suspension of reality is happening. More willing to accept any and all arguments to confirm what they want to believe as the truth. Instead of facing the truth whatever it is.

The story is just evolving on Biden. Who knows what it will be in a week, month from now. It appears at this time he is helping not hindering the investigation. Not so for the last Presidents actions.

That is most people most of the time. It's rare to actually base your opinion on reasoned argument. Most reasoning is just rationalization.

Former US attorney Barbara McQuade on investigations involving mishandling of classified documents:

“Cases typically are charged criminally only when an aggravating factor is present. The difference with Trump is that two of the four are met, and that is willful violation and obstruction. These two factors that are present for Trump do not appear to be present in the Biden case. These cases are very different.” McQuade added that if she was the US attorney reviewing the Biden case, she would decline to prosecute.

Her view corresponds to what James Comey said in 2016 in reference to Hillary's emails:

In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.

This correlates with my personal experience of having worked in positions requiring a security clearance for 38 years (20 of which was a compartmentalized Top Secret clearance). Security infractions involving mishandling of classified documents were nearly always dealt with administratively (personnel actions including revocation of clearance, demotion or termination). Criminal prosecution was only in the cards for infractions per the criteria outlined by Comey and were extremely rare.

Did Biden remove classified documents? Yes.

Did Biden maintain possession of those documents? Yes.

Did Trump's more combative approach inform/inflame the Agencies' response? Sure. However, your other points of comparison are far less relevant than the basic fact that "he had them, and he should not have had them", and then hypocritically criticizing another for doing what he did.

You call me "clueless", but you then make a statement like "Biden is an honest man"? If you really believe that, you're further gone than I thought. Biden has had a long and remarkable history of trouble with the truth.

Here, let me help you just a bit: https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/20/polit...021/index.html

Yawn....

While these seem to be the facts. The handling of the "discovery" seems to have been handle correctly for this type of situation, this is the huge difference in the two cases and it carries a lot of weight in the investigating.

I will not be surprised if that office is cleared for classified material and if it was stored properly will just be an "oops we forgot to turn this in" ... "here is the training those involved need to do" and that's the end of it.

Just finished an investigation last week, someone plugged into wrong LAN drop. Since it was reported correctly as soon as it was discovered and deemed inadvertent with no intent of plugging into the "secret" LAN the result was training for that individual.


Again, just the observations of a guy that as dealt with this since 1985 :)

The biggest difference I see here that Trump lied and continued to lie about the documents that he had in his possession that he had also unlawfully removed and then and moved to his home in S. Florida. Lock him up.

That and the private residence thing. Both HUGE issues.

Donny is incapable of telling the truth about anything. Some here are unable to comprehend that he is fundamentally different from the honorable Biden.

HCR's summary, on point as always:

Yesterday, news broke that in November, President Joe Biden’s lawyers found “a small number” of classified documents from his vice-presidential years in a locked closet in Biden’s former office at Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement. They immediately contacted the National Archives and Records Administration, which retrieved the documents the same day. Biden said that he did not know the documents were there and that his lawyers “did what they should have done” when they called NARA. Attorney General Merrick Garland assigned a Trump-appointed U.S. attorney, John R. Lausch Jr., to see if he should appoint a special counsel.

Trump and his supporters immediately tried to suggest Biden was getting better treatment than he did, but journalist Matthew Miller notes that classified documents often get taken from government facilities by accident. Those errors are reported, the documents recovered, and a damage assessment made to determine whether further action needs to be taken.

In Trump’s case, NARA repeatedly asked him simply to return the documents it knew he had. He refused for a year, then let them recover 15 boxes that included classified documents, withholding others. After a subpoena, his lawyers turned over more documents and signed an affidavit saying that was all of them. But of course it wasn’t: the FBI’s August search of Mar-a-Lago recovered still more classified documents. Trump is being investigated now for obstruction and violations of the Espionage Act, which makes it a crime to withhold documents from a government official authorized to take them.

Yes, unlawful removal, deceit and unlawful storage. Three strikes, so lock him up. :)

With the facts we have, these cases are apples and oranges in the classified material handling world.

The case studies for training would be, do not do it like Trump, do it like Biden.

No, we don't yet know that Biden personally removed the documents.

No, we also don't yet know if Biden consciously maintained possession of these documents.

No, it wasn't his "combative approach." It was the deliberate obstruction of DOJ efforts to recover the documents that caused the legal jeopardy he now finds himself in.

We have a Trump-appointed US Attorney investigating Biden's documents now. I thought you were an advocate of allowing the legal process to play out and that anything short of a criminal conviction is innocence or does this apply only to Dear Leader?

Precisely

Donny Fumes at Karl Rove Over His Fox News Analysis That Fmr. President’s Confidential Docs Issue is Worse Than Biden’s

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/tr...e-than-bidens/

Even Rove, a piece of “conservative” crap, gets it. This is a “nothingburger”.

The MAGA micro-minds have reduced it to just having the classified documents which allows them to clutch their collective pearls while ignoring the criminal acts by which the Mango Menace came to hold the documents that he tried to claim he didn't have at all, that he claimed the FBI planted, that he declassified with his mind, that he wants back because (finders' keepers) they're actually his.

Biden, being VP at the time was authorized to possess said documents. He did not "take them away" from where they belonged.
For Biden to "maintain possession" of the documents he would have had to do like tRump and take them to his personal residence.
Conservatives are harping on "he had them" to vainly paint this as bad as tRump's outright theft. But hey, whell you keep on digesting and regurgitating Reich-wing media talking points, because that's jut what you do.

I hear you. To me, the timing is rather suspect here, and in Washington DC, there's no such thing as a coincidence. The discovery and production of documents in Biden's case happened just days before the 2022 election. It's hard not to suspect the two are somehow related.

And now it appears additional classified documents have been found in Biden's possession.

Regarding the Trump documents, I still don't know if there was ever a satisfactory explanation of how the FBI - who knew the documents were at Mar a Lago and had been out to see them previously, and directed that they be placed under lock and key (a request that was complied with) - went from "we know the documents are there and we're not taking any further action" to an armed raid. I'm sure some will disagree with this.... :p

Really? They belonged in boxes and U of Penn? Ho do you figure that? :rolleyes:

More Classified Documents Found

No doubt this looks bad.

I'd like to know the timeline and chain of custody for the documents. Surely the Feds keep such information.

To the chain of custody, I will not be surprised that at the end of all this neither Trump or Biden ever had official "custody" of any of this material, it will more than likely be a staffer.

I used to sign out material all the time for Flag level briefings and working groups, Admirals never signed for it, always a staffer. I really do not see the WH doing this any different.

Chain of custody tracking on Federal classified documents? Doubt it. If that were the case, the "document control" folks - assuming there were any - would have been all over something like Hillary's personal server long before it became a news item.

Sadly, whether it's Trump, Biden, or whatever government official, I suspect this is a more widespread issue than we know. Think of all the House members and Senators that are exposed to these documents, their staffs, members of the sprawling Federal bureaucracy, etc. The risk of lost, strayed and stolen documents are immense. Protected information getting passed from Federal employees, contractors, etc. to foreign actors makes news periodically, and I suspect there's more of that going on than makes the news or gets prosecuted.

How did all that information get on Wikileaks, for example, if there was a strong document control? We've known for a while that China has been stealing US tech and their military contains many copy-cats of US weapons and military craft.

With a government this large, there are many, many holes that classified information can flow through.

I was the custodian for one of the John Walker vaults before I retired. There were only 7 of us in that office and I would find stuff laying around all the time, our office was SCIF so no harm no foul, but we all knew to put it back in the vault when done and it didn't always happen.

I can't image much control with a bunch of elected chuckleheads and their staffs.