Originally Posted by Chicks (Post 410128)

So, let me see if I have this right:

Donny, a career criminal, steals highly classified documents, many of which could get patriotic people killed, lies to the FBI that he doesn't have them, then gets caught red-handed with them. And now the Feds are the bad guys!?

You're a riot, Whell. :D

Originally Posted by Oerets (Post 410131)

Still waiting for a legal reality based reason the loser of an election would still have government files period.

Especially after repeated request for their return.

Originally Posted by whell (Post 410133)

Kindly point me to the post in this thread where I said “the Feds are the bad guys”.

Originally Posted by whell (Post 410134)

I agree. Maybe I’m over-complicating this, but I think there’s a missing piece here. The request for a special master is not consistent with someone concerned that the documents are being wrongly retained.

Originally Posted by whell (Post 410123)

......but when the Feds set out to get you, they'll find a way.......

Originally Posted by whell (Post 410123)

It didn't need to go this way, but when the Feds set out to get you, they'll find a way.

Originally Posted by whell (Post 410133)

Kindly point me to the post in this thread where I said “the Feds are the bad guys”.

Originally Posted by bobabode (Post 410135)

Third paragraph.

Originally Posted by Chicks (Post 410146)

As at least two people WAY smarter than you have already pointed out:

"when the Feds set out to get you, they'll find a way"

Doh!

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 410140)

Gotta call BS here. If the Feds were really out to get him, he would be in jail already for obstruction in the Mueller probe, bank fraud/election law violations in the Stormy Daniels case, and/or assorted lawbreaking associated with the 2020 election and Jan 6.
He has been given undue deference and accordingly thought he could steal boatloads of TS/SCI documents and obstruct an investigation into their whereabouts and not suffer any consequences. He simply does not think that any laws apply to him.

Originally Posted by init4fun (Post 410139)

Hi Whell,

So I gotta ask, if Mr. Trump didn't have any top secret documents that he shouldn't have, do you think the Feds still would have set out to get him? And, I might as well also ask, do you think he'll be charged with the alleged attempted overturning of the election, or the alleged enticement of the Jan 6 capitol riot ?

Originally Posted by whell (Post 410152)

The deference is due to legal precedent about indicting a sitting President. And if you think a Special Counsel being appointed while you're President, and then taking two years to conduct an investigation does your Presidency any favors and helps you advance your agenda, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

That's the second time you've used the word "steal", or should I say, misused it. No one is alleging "theft"of the documents.

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 410154)

It was the Trump DOJ that appointed a Special Counsel who found numerous crimes committed by the Trump campaign. Indeed George Papadopolous was the one whose statement to an Australian diplomat launched the investigation.
Trump could have surrounded himself with competent, honest people. Instead he chose Manafort, Roger Stone, Rick Gates, Papadopolous, Kushner and other unsavory, dishonest clowns. It was Trump and the behavior of his campaign that caused a Special Counsel to be appointed.

Originally Posted by whell (Post 410155)

Damn, you record keeps skipping.

No, that's not why Mueller was appointed, and you don't get to re-write history:

The appointment of Mueller — who is widely respected on both sides of the aisle -- comes after a growing outcry, mostly from Democrats, amid fallout of President Trump's firing of FBI Director James Comey last week. While the White House initially insisted the dismissal was precipitated by Comey's mishandling of the investigation into Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton's emails — outlined by Rosenstein in a memo — Trump later told NBC's Lester Holt that the Russia investigation factored into his decision.

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/17/52884...e-russia-probe

Now, you can make the point that the appointment of Meuller was specifically to continue the investigation over Russian collusion, but then you'd need to also concede that Mueller's probe didn't find any evidence of collusion. And no one really expected them to, because they were looking in the wrong place.

Originally Posted by whell (Post 410123)

Given some of the crap I've seen in posts because I've been hesitant to come to a conclusion, I thought I'd put this in its own thread:

I now think I know where the Feds are going, and the law on which they're making a case. And I think they have a case.

It didn't need to go this way, but when the Feds set out to get you, they'll find a way. And in this case, they found it. Trump didn't help himself, either, with his public statements about the documents and their classified nature.

I do now expect an indictment.

Originally Posted by whell (Post 410150)

Nope. That's not calling anyone a bad guy. At worst, it hearkens back to this comment by Chuck S:

“Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Schumer told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow.

In this case, it was the FBI and Justice.

Originally Posted by Chicks (Post 410192)

Oh, and naturally, Whell titles this thread with the word "Raid", a politically charged, Reich-wing tag.

‘The Opposite of a Raid’
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...ecords/671099/

Originally Posted by Rajoo (Post 410222)

U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon, seems to be running interference for Trump and should not be ruling in this case. His legal team is seeking a favorable ruling from a judge with scant experience and whom he appointed two years or so ago. After his election loss and Joe Biden taking the oath of office, Trump has no executive privilege.

Now that other documents are missing, time for a coordinated search of his Florida, NY and NJ homes and offices. The JD has nothing to lose now, his theft of documents are well established and the wingnuts have gone ballistic any way. The more the Trump's rabid base is riled up, better for democracy and Democrats. The GOP loves to keep harping on National Security and how does Trump stealing classified documents not threaten our national security? And Barr's comments has helped the Justice Department's case since he made them on Faux.

"Ex-President has stolen classified documents, our national security is at risk and we aim to get them back and find out what happened to the missing ones or did he give them to a foreign agent?" should be their stated objective, nothing less.

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 410223)

Exactly right. Finding out what happened to missing documents should involve the extended 'debriefing' of the ex-president and his associates, as a counter-intelligence matter. But unlike the ex-president, I do not advocate the use of waterboarding, etc....

Originally Posted by init4fun (Post 410220)

This is an excerpt from an article I read about the Trump documents issue. It certainly appears that he has violated the law regarding who actually "owns" those documents.......





‘NO SUCH THINGS AS MEMENTOS’

The Archives serves as the final resting spot for the work of every White House.

After the Watergate scandal and Nixon's resignation, Congress passed a law in 1978 to ensure that all presidential records — written, electronic material created by the president, the vice president, or any other member of the executive branch in an official capacity — are preserved and turned over to the Archives at the end of an administration. The law states that a president's records are not his or her own, but are the property of the federal government and must be treated as such.

When a new administration begins, White House staff receive a brochure on the law and step-by-step instructions on how to preserve records. The preservation requirements cover a wide range of items, including presents and letters from foreign leaders. “There are no such things as mementos,” said Lee White, the executive director of the National Coalition for History.

In addition, the law requires that even while in office, the president or any member of that administration must first seek the advice of the archivist before destroying any record, a practice Trump and his aides reportedly ignored throughout his four years in office.

“Everything he writes down is essentially a presidential record. It's not his property,” White said. “It is so basic to the whole concept of why the Presidential Records Act was created.”

“At noon on Inauguration Day, the custody transfers to the archivist. Period. There is no maybe. It's the law,” he added.

___

AN UNPRECEDENTED DECISION

The rules of the Presidential Records Act are central to the FBI's investigation of Trump.

After Trump left office, the Archives discovered that records from his White House were missing. What followed was a yearlong back-and-forth between the Archives’ legal counsel and Trump’s lawyers that resulted in the voluntary return of 15 boxes of presidential records. Upon opening the boxes, the agency discovered that 14 of them contained classified documents and information.

Recognizing a potential crime, the agency made the unprecedented decision to refer the matter to the Justice Department. That move culminated in the search of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort in August. FBI agents recovered more than 100 classified records, including some that were stashed in the former president’s office among personal items.

Originally Posted by bobabode (Post 410230)

No offense intended but a link to the story quoted is required by Grumpy's rules. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Rajoo (Post 410228)

Offer Trump blanket immunity since I am betting that he will never be prosecuted and/or convicted. If two impeachments didn't stick, doubt this will either. He will be permanently branded as a traitor, discredited, silenced and hopefully exiled. If not throw the book at him now, raid everyplace he has been to since getting evicted from the WH and hell with the elections. In the end this will only help the Democrats (Independent voters who see them as pandering to the progressive wing) for bringing a traitor to justice.

I am also betting that the missing documents have been given away or sold. Anyone handling extremely important or sensitive documents usually return them to their folders.

Originally Posted by RickeyM (Post 410234)

tRump shouldn't be the one getting blanket immunity. That should be reserved for someone that rolls over on him. If the documents have "left the country" as some suspect Donny would never burn that bridge. He may need to cross it later on. The two impeachment didn't stick because of the Repub's in the Senate. That cover wouldn't help him in a court of law.

Originally Posted by Chicks (Post 410237)

Donny has repeatedly called for lengthy jail sentences for those who he claimed mishandled classified information

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/03/polit...ile/index.html

Are MAGAMorons even capable of recognizing irony? Whell?

Originally Posted by bobabode (Post 410230)

No offense intended but a link to the story quoted is required by Grumpy's rules. Thanks.

Originally Posted by init4fun (Post 410233)

Hi Bob, since I couldn't find the story again (it was on my browser's homepage this AM, but is now gone) I have deleted my post. Thank You for letting me know about the link rule.....

Originally Posted by Rajoo (Post 410247)

Bob, I found it and here is the link. From ABC Channel 7 Chicago yet. :D

VHF channels 2,5 & 7 were CBS, NBC and ABC in Chicago when I lived there.

https://abc7chicago.com/what-are-nat...-fbi/12195116/