Under the Banner of Heaven. TV series.
 

Anyone else following this docu-drama?
Your thoughts?
There is much of it the wallpaper of my younger years, tho discussions of polygamy past and present were discouraged, as were anything not "faith-affirming or faith-promoting". We were aware of it but weren't to discuss it.

The True Story Behind Hulu’s 'Under the Banner of Heaven' | Time
https://time.com/6171741/under-the-b...en-true-story/

The book is so much better that I bailed after a couple of episodes. They turned a great and informative book into a Mormon-tinged police procedural.

Under the Banner of Heaven Repeats the Book’s Fundamental Mistake
The Hulu adaptation of Jon Krakauer’s book rebukes Mormon zealots but doesn’t fully escape their point of view.

https://slate.com/culture/2022/05/un...mormonism.html

The primary criticism of this review is that the book and the show didn't adequately describe the differences between the LDS and FLDS. I thought the book did so quite well. For that matter, the show does too, drawing a contrast between the detective's faith and that of the Lafferty's. That said, the book was really good. The show defaults to a typical Hollywood police procedural and doesn't address the foundational history of the LDS church nearly as well as the book was able to do.

You boys will have to give me a synopsis.

The 'Book of Morman' delivered to Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni is as 'mind blowing' as the Qu'ran, delivered to the Great Prophet Muhamad by an angel (who's name I can not remember).

Don't make me Google this stuff.

Jibril (Gabriel in English). If you're interested in an engaging, interesting and eminently readable book on the history of Islam, I recommend "No God but God" by Reza Aslan.

Before this timeline, there was the Ervil Lebaron/ Rulon Allred affair.
https://www.oxygen.com/deadly-cults/...olygamist-cult

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...753-story.html

Just ordered it from the dreaded scourge, Amazon.

Krakauer supposedly forces a historical link to violence as a characteristic of the Salt Lake/Brigham Young branch, more a characteristic of some (not all) schizmatic "Fundamentalist" ( read polygamist) break-away groups, typically led by a self-annointed " true prophet" restoration of the "true church". While the Temple Square main group is authoritarian to varying degrees, violence hasn't been characteristic since the Edwardian years if at all. The Church does harbor a quiet historical sense of persecution by Federal central authority and hostile opponents.

The modern-day LDS church itself was compelled to break-away from original LDS orthodoxy (which correlates to modern-day FLDS ideology) in order to become a US state in 1896. As to LDS sensitivity to their fundamentalist brethren being portrayed by Krakauer's book as violent, one could argue that fundamentalist sects of the Big 3 western religions all have patriarchy, misogyny, sexual abuse, violence and a sense of persecution at their core and are sensitive/defensive when abuses deriving from these attributes come to light.

Re the TV show, anyone else think a big resemblance to Anthony Perkins helped the lead actor get the job?

The AUB branch, tmbk is an exception. I've been a guest and had dinner with them. The present leader told me over dessert that his mission will be to "put the fun in fundamentalism" as a man of ethical moderation. I've been acquainted with his wife for a few years thru Sunstone historical society and my bro, a Western American and Mormon history expert, tho no longer an active member, a respected historian.

Doubtful, tho he is convincing in the role.

What 'Under the Banner of Heaven' gets right — and wrong — about Mormons

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2022...nner-of-heaven

If ‘Under the Banner of Heaven’ Made Mormons Angry, the FX Series Will ‘Make Them Apoplectic’

https://www.indiewire.com/2022/04/un...-1234719319%2F

After Lynn A. Thompson assumed leadership of the AUB, he was accused of sexual misconduct by one of his daughters, Rosemary Williams, and shortly thereafter by two of his nieces. Thompson's critics within the AUB also alleged he embezzled up to $500,000 in tithing funds and used official Church accounts for personal expenditures.

Fun for him, less so for others.:eek:

To be perfectly clear;
Lynn Thompson was worse than an embarrassment to the AUB. Cleaning up after his abuses of authority is going to be a heavy task for his successor.
My contact is thru his replacement, David Watson, an open, decent, ethical responsible individual.
Maryanne Watson, his wife, is who I worked with on a history project presentation.

Tho' I'm familiar with the overall culture thru immersion via early pioneer family history, my thoughts on the cosmic aspects are that "there is insufficient solid data to make a definite determination at this time" , and, "I do not have that degree of faith in the unknown unproven".

The reason I started the thread here was due to my own interest in the social/historical aspects of this docu-drama out of curiousity for how it's generally perceived by those unfamiliar with the background issues.

An open, decent, ethical, responsible polygamist? Who knew?

General perceptions like yours is why I started the thread, my perspective is atypical of both mainstream Mormons and non-members thru a familiarity with the history and culture.
Mormon "fundamentalism" (read poligamy) has a fairly strong argument as a more "pure" theological basis if Joseph Smith is accepted as a true prophet and seer founder and foundation to the faith for the truest of true believers that can square the circle of obedience to the sitting authorities vs obedience to what are considered essential principles as established by the founder. That's the theological attraction to prospective sub-converts, not the prospect of multiple sexual partners, tho the latter can find justification in the former. With people as unique individuals, taking on the requirements and responsibilities of multiple partners and the resulting offspring can be an emotional and financial burden that can easily overwhelm the unprepared participant. Also obvious is the absolute authority this sort of faith gives the leadership, ripe for abuse.
I've already previously mentioned Rulon Allred and Ervil Lebaron as two leaders of different sub-sects with very different styles and attitudes to their positions. Look them up on Wiki.

Over ~20 years, I spent lots of time for work in Utah and southeastern Idaho and became close friends with lots of Mormons, though most would probably be considered Jack Mormons by the more observant of the faith. As a result, most were fairly critical of the mainstream LDS church, not exactly for the theology itself as for its insularity and social pressures imposed on non-Mormons or Jack Mormons in cities and towns with large LDS populations. Nearly all of them had read Krakauer's book when it came out, liked it, but were embarrassed (but not insulted) by its revelations.

Sounds like the folks I'd hang with.

The two main fundy sects are the FLDS, formerly of Short Creek (Warren Jeffs, remember them?) and the AUB of Bluffdale Utah and Pinesdale, Montana.

One of the things I shared with Maryanne Watson for her research was how the United States Navy unwittingly funded the resurgence of the Mormon fundementalist movement thru a contract with one of the sub-converts for his patented high sensitivity telephone headsets for wireless signal applications.
Web search "Nathaniel Baldwin, Utah Inventor and Patron of the Fundamentalist Movement by Merrill Singer" for the best account of that story.

Really good people, not to mention accomplished skiers, hunters and fly fishermen. I spent lots of time there on the slopes and on the South Fork of the Snake.

WACO was pretty well publicized.

Herd them all back in, kill them.

:eek:

This all like a dream, like Dorothy, in the Wizard of Oz.

Steve, I sent you a vacuum tube radio from my uncle's estate because I knew you would appreciate it.

You can text me, I still have the same phone number.

I thought you were a physically large, 70 year old homosexual, Harley Davidson riding guy. Because that's what you presented on Audiokarma.

Thought you had rejected all this Christianity bullshit.

I'm drinking Budweiser again, looking at a Homeland Security drone if I play with my guns outside my house.

Y'all have good night.

You too, thnx for the radio!

All true enough, except I'm 75 now, lost bulk, downsized to an Indian Scout, and admire Christian ethics but not so much the dogma of necessity. My interest is cultural history of this uniquely American group of sub-sects.
I don't role-play on the internet, way too much work.

We're cool, Steve.

Not lying about the drone, either. The State of Kansas couldn't afford a drone that won't fit in the back of a pick-up truck.

It's not a Predator, just has an impressive ball gimbal camera. 10' square to the axis's of the four motors.

I'm fascinated by the history of the Mormon church. Carry on.

(edit..the Indian is impressive, excellent photo. You could be the lone biker of the apocalypse... like Raising Arizona).

Netflix Docuseries Digs into Warren Jeffs’s Polygamist Cult With Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey Trailer

https://movieweb.com/keep-sweet-pray...lygamist-cult/