We need a major change.
 

As an expat always looking in to what's going on in my native US I have to stop and wonder as to how US democracy has evolved since the funding fathers. When I analyze the US system vs. the rest of the democratic world I end up thinking that the US is one of the most undemocratic democracies anywhere.

1. Elections in most democracies take between 4-16 weeks at the federal level; in the US it's an ongoing perpetual machine with billions of dollars spent and in turn billions of IOU's. There's enough corruption generated by 4-16 week elections so in the US it must be staggering. The US system encourages lobbyists to a higher degree than elsewhere in the world and this in turn narrows the scope of governance.

2. Americans hold dear their 2nd amendment right to bear arms but they forget to put it in context of when and why it was written. Face it folks the British ain't going to show up at your door with flintlocks. Neither will the Russians or Chinese.

I could go on and on but the first one on above list is the one that needs to be addressed first in my opinion. What's your opinion?

Oh there are major major reforms needed but there's no clear and easy way to get them done. The red states can and will block progressive constitutional amendments.

The reforms needed will have little chance of ever happening if the present evils lurking at the door are allowed in.
The allowing of the "Q" phenomenon running rampant, unchecked conspiracy theories believed by a uncomfortable percentage. With it appears psyops mind controlling masters at work to undermined our country and for what end can only be guessed.

Yes, I agree that things look really grim at this moment but do you agree that fundamental changes must be made to our structure in order to reverse course. Nobody I'm aware of brings this up in government or the media regardless of their political stripes.

The first change I would like to see is a return to decency. Since when is ok for adults to tweet garbage and call their opponents names? We have to end the bipartisanship where each side digs in their heels and won't consider compromise. It's time our elected officials start acting like adults.

I'm not saying it's entirely new behavior, but we can thank Newt Gingrich for a lot of the name calling:

"Gingrich encouraged them to go after their enemies with catchy, alliterative nicknames—“Daffy Dukakis,” “the loony left”—and schooled them in the art of partisan blood sport. Through gopac, he sent out cassette tapes and memos to Republican candidates across the country who wanted to “speak like Newt,” providing them with carefully honed attack lines and creating, quite literally, a new vocabulary for a generation of conservatives. One memo, titled “Language: A Key Mechanism of Control,” included a list of recommended words to use in describing Democrats: sick, pathetic, lie, anti-flag, traitors, radical, corrupt."

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...elcome/570832/

When one is lacking a effective argument or plan, then name calling demonizing and conspiracies changing the narrative are the only arrows left in the quiver.

Correct! And that's why all of us are getting dragged into it. Just like we do for our kids it's us now that need a 'time out'. So rather then being a part of the problem how can we at Political Chat be part of a solution.

"...how can we be a part of the solution...."

I've been giving that a lot of thought lately. I'm not coming up with any great ideas that will make a change on a macro level. But, I can make changes in myself which will only impact my little corner of the world, if I'm lucky.

I've never been a Michael Jackson fan, but there are lyrics in one of his songs that makes so much sense to me:

I'm starting with the man in the mirror
I'm asking him to change his ways
And no message could have been any clearer
If you want to make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself, and then make a change

Human, your post number 6 was very informative. Thanks for that.

As an expat always looking in to what's going on in my native US I have to stop and wonder as to how US democracy has evolved since the funding fathers. When I analyze the US system vs. the rest of the democratic world I end up thinking that the US is one of the most undemocratic democracies anywhere.

The United States has never been a direct democracy. It has always been a Representative Republic. I'll wait with patience while you make a case that it is less Democratic than Russia, China, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, and other Woke paradises in the world.

1. Elections in most democracies take between 4-16 weeks at the federal level; in the US it's an ongoing perpetual machine with billions of dollars spent and in turn billions of IOU's. There's enough corruption generated by 4-16 week elections so in the US it must be staggering. The US system encourages lobbyists to a higher degree than elsewhere in the world and this in turn narrows the scope of governance.

You won't get ANY argument there. The richest neighborhoods and the largest concentration of the super rich are on K Street in Washington, where the lobbyists ply their trade. They buy Congress, and Congress buys votes. And TV time is very expensive.

2. Americans hold dear their 2nd amendment right to bear arms but they forget to put it in context of when and why it was written. Face it folks the British ain't going to show up at your door with flintlocks. Neither will the Russians or Chinese.


Actually, Americans hold dear the ENTIRE United States Constitution. (Except for the Democrats who are illegally impeaching Donald Trump.) But I suggest you read the Second Amendment and show us where the word "Flintlock" is being used.

Without asking which country you expatriated to, I gotta ask if you're truly happy. President Trump and most of America didn't begin building that wall to keep people IN this country. Half the world wants to come here.

Where you're living now, (and again you don't have to say where) are you enjoying freedom? How expensive is it to live? Does the tax laws leave you enough money to buy a house? How much does gasoline cost?

My brother keeps claiming that enough governors will get together and force a Constitutional Convention, where they will have one item on the docket: Term limits for Congress.

Presidential term limits were achieved through a constitutional convention.

I tried to remind him that the 22nd Amendment was ratified from 1947 to 1951. And it was a completely different world back then. There was no golden age of television, no cable news networks, no internet, no Facebook, etc. I say good luck to ANYONE who wants to bring about any more changes to the Constitution.

As a "red stater" and a conservative (which makes up about 76 percent of America) the only amendment I would make to the constitution would be term limits for Congress, simply because the lobbyists on K Street have way too much power, funneling money to incumbents and getting rich on the back end.

And even that sounds unreasonable because every two years (House) and every six years (Senate) there are term limits elections in every state.

I am curious as to what would be so important to you liberals that you would be willing to bypass Congress to enact into law. We already know the things Biden has chose to bypass even a Democrat Congress.

Good morning, Reason. You didn't pick nations that would go on many people's lists of 'woike democracies.' Denmark is considered a very good example these days though. Why don't you assess how we stack up against Denmark?

Is the US more or less democratic that Bhutan? That's my idea of a 'woke paradise.' They make policy based on Gross National Happiness. And they have had exactly one (1) COVID virus death.

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...2Cx3fXkdt-_aZU

There has not been a constitutional convention since the original. Your info on the 22nd amendment is faulty.

I hardly speak for any collective of 'liberals,' let alone your conception of them, but I would like to see amendments to 1) abolish the electoral college system in favor of direct popular nationwide election of the President, and 2) make the over-representation of empty land in the Senate less extreme (by any of several possible schemes, we can discuss). This is not a matter of bypassing Congress, but of accomplishing things beyond the constitutional power of Congress.

Oh, we might straighten out that pesky 'Militia Protection Amendment,' you know, the 2nd one. On the history, it was clearly a mistake, Militias have just been trouble.

I've lived in Canada since 1976, now in a suburb of Toronto, a city that has immigrants from 226 different countries... the most international city in the world. I own my home free and clear, my wife and I travel extensively and gas costs $3.24 a US gallon after adjusting for exchange rates. Retired one year ago but when I was working 44% of my income went to taxes: which included federal, provincial, property and 13% retail taxes. BTW minimum wage is $15.

Unlike most Americans who've never left their state I've defended the US and most of it's policies throughout southern Europe, north Africa, the Balkans and yes, Canada. I am proud to be an American.

As for Trump, look at the man and his past and be thankful he's not around for another 4 years.

Oh brother :rolleyes:

76%? What orfice did you pull that out of, Biff? :rolleyes:

Show your work.

Funny, Mr X was engaged in a perfectly nice way in this thread, and he dropped it like a bad habit. He just came here to have fun slapping the libs around.

I've lived in Canada since 1976, now in a suburb of Toronto, a city that has immigrants from 226 different countries... the most international city in the world. I own my home free and clear, my wife and I travel extensively and gas costs $3.24 a US gallon after adjusting for exchange rates. Retired one year ago but when I was working 44% of my income went to taxes: which included federal, provincial, property and 13% retail taxes. BTW minimum wage is $15.

I've tried to tell some of my fellow Floridians (the ones who become totally helpless in what little cold snaps we get here) to just try to imagine living in Toronto in January. They just look at me in awe. But I tell them that in that oppressive cold and endless blizzard conditions, people move about and conduct business every day like it's normal.

Florida just passed a $15 an hour minimum wage through the direct referendum system. (Our legislature isn't nearly as stupid as to pass such an idiotic law.) So stupid people will be laid off from menial jobs and not get hired in situations where their skills are not worth $15 an hour. And people EVEN IN FLORIDA have trouble understanding that.

Unlike most Americans who've never left their state I've defended the US and most of it's policies throughout southern Europe, north Africa, the Balkans and yes, Canada. I am proud to be an American.

Well, technically, you are a North American. As far as most Americans having never left their state, I'm not sure how accurate a statement that is. I'm not saying it isn't true, because it might be. I'm just not sure. Personally I've been to Quebec, Mexico, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, Grand Caymans, and the Bahamas. I enjoyed Mexico probably the most (probably because of the beer) but I'd be an idiot if I ever thought of living there.

As for Trump, look at the man and his past and be thankful he's not around for another 4 years.



When you compare Trump's past to that of serial rapists like Bill KKKlinton, or serial pedophiles and Nazis like Jim Crow Joe, or incompetent community organizers like Obama, Trump wins on every count. But let's just not talk about the past. Let's judge these men SOLELY on their accomplishments. So far, Trump has given America the greatest economy, four years of PEACE in the world with no new wars (a FIRST for both parties) and a level of patriotism not seen since the Reagan years.

America is about to take it up the ass with this Nazi who stole the election.

Get someone with an education to read the Constitution to you.

Facts don't care about your feelings.
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.A...=0&w=300&h=300

There has not been a constitutional convention since the original. Your info on the 22nd amendment is faulty.


My brother claimed that only a constitutional convention of governors will give us the Congressional term limits that the Woke Congos will refuse to pass. I tell him it's a different world.

I hardly speak for any collective of 'liberals,' let alone your conception of them, but I would like to see amendments to 1) abolish the electoral college system in favor of direct popular nationwide election of the President,

So California and New York get to tell the rest of the country what to do? Yeah, right.



and 2) make the over-representation of empty land in the Senate less extreme (by any of several possible schemes, we can discuss).

So people who are not jammed together, collecting welfare checks and in this country illegally are not worthy of equal representation by government? You propose government for the scumbags, and not the TAXPAYERS? Yeah, right. That worked so well in Venezuela, didn't it?



Oh, we might straighten out that pesky 'Militia Protection Amendment,' you know, the 2nd one. On the history, it was clearly a mistake, Militias have just been trouble.

Only if we can outlaw ANY armed protection of any politician at any spot in the US or abroad. What you think is good for the common taxpayer should be good for the useless Michelle Obamas of the world.


NO secret service protection, PERIOD. Let those hacks call 911 like everyone else and be put on hold.

As far as pesky militias, I agree with you that domestic racist terrorist groups like BLM and ANTIFA have been nothing but trouble. Rather than screw the ENTIRE country and spit on the memory of the Founding Fathers, there is a simpler solution.

If those animals are breaking the law, arrest them and put them in jail. And DON'T BE SUCH AN IDIOT AS TO VOTE FOR A VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE WHO BAILS THEM OUT.

Shapiro is one of the whiniest people on the planet.

I just now noticed that logo down in the lower-left corner. Turning Point USA
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DismalUnco...restricted.gif

If Trump had stayed around for another four years he probably would have been successful in establishing the first American dictatorship. You think I'm nuts? No, it's because of people like you who buy into the BS he's been feeding since before his first election. Reason10, be reasonable and see the full picture; yes he wants to 'drain the swamp' and that sounds really cool and progressive as opposed to having the old guard like Biden run things; it's like deja vu all over again. But everything he has done in the past four years and is still currently doing points only in one direction.... he wants to be the only gator left in the swamp.

When I analyze the US system vs. the rest of the democratic world I end up thinking that the US is one of the most undemocratic democracies anywhere.

You probably think that because you are under the mistaken impression that the United States is a democracy. It has never been such a thing. It has always been a representative republic. (Guess you didn't notice that...uh...bicameral part of government called the CONGRESS.)

1. Elections in most democracies take between 4-16 weeks at the federal level; in the US it's an ongoing perpetual machine with billions of dollars spent and in turn billions of IOU's. There's enough corruption generated by 4-16 week elections so in the US it must be staggering. The US system encourages lobbyists to a higher degree than elsewhere in the world and this in turn narrows the scope of governance.

Freedom isn't cheap. The First Amendment isn't cheap. Television time is very expensive, something about all those limited bandwidths out there. If you want to STOP the lobbyists completely there's only ONE way to do that: Term limits for everyone in Congress. That completely takes away the power of K street.

2. Americans hold dear their 2nd amendment right to bear arms but they forget to put it in context of when and why it was written. Face it folks the British ain't going to show up at your door with flintlocks. Neither will the Russians or Chinese.


The word "flintlocks" never appeared in the Constitution. Just out of curiosity, what OTHER Bill Of Rights limitations on government power would you throw away, just because you don't like it? Would you like to get rid of freedom of speech? Would you like to get arrested because what you post here offends someone in government?

Would you like to get rid due process, arrest warrants, etc? Would you like to get rid of the right to a lawyer, the right to a fair, speedy trial?

Would you like to bring back SLAVERY?

Would you like stop women and certain minorities from voting?

Would you like to give a president unlimited terms in office?

I could go on and on but the first one on above list is the one that needs to be addressed first in my opinion. What's your opinion?


I have alternative answers to your first proposal. I would go by requiring ALL voters in America be required to carry a photo ID national voting card, and that all absentee ballots be in by Election Night or not counted at all. (Except for overseas military absentee voters.)

I would completely get rid of mail-in voting entirely. If a person wants to vote, that person needs to get a registration, complete with verification of an address, and SHOW UP on Election Day with the photo ID in hand.

Truthfully, that's the only thing wrong with our elections today. And THIS Bozo is proof of that.


https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/...eDbCL._AC_.jpg

That is a LIE.

Trump made this country freer and more prosperous than ALL past Democrat presidents combined.

You ARE nuts, as well as uninformed and uneducated.

You need to get your head out from THE VIEW'S ass and start looking at FACTS.

Chaos is not Freedom. The prosperity seems to continues to rise without the Trump Administration. It will continue to so as we get vaccines out and get the virus under control.

The Trumpers greatest fear; That the rest of America, both Red and Blue, will realize they don't need Trump for anything. I believe we never did.

I've traveled the world both personally and professionally thanks to my BsME,MBA and PhD.

He will be along shortly to call you an "arrogant, elitist snob" and tell you how meaningless all of that alphabet soup is to him.:rolleyes:

But, Trump is a "businessman" so, he has all of the answers.....

See how that works? Propaganda and psy-ops produce some of the most interesting mindsets, don't they?

That's why, although it's tempting, I don't put him on my Ignore list. As a well known Vulcan often said, Fascinating.
;)