We will soon know if American propaganda is different from Germany, 1932
 

Article here: We will soon know if American propaganda is different from Germany, 1932

I consider this to be rock solid analysis from a source I'd not heard of before. However, being a student of the rise of Nazism in Germany, and politically savvy in the 21st century, I see it as laid out pretty well there.

The article speaks to me on a certain level because I'm aware that Nazi's did not come into power by rounding up and killing Jews. That's just how it ended before they were ultimately stopped. No, before that, they made a lot of sense to a lot of people. Not the majority, of course, but they proved they didn't need a majority. And then there is the Reichstag fire, of course.

It is not lost on any student of 20th century history that the Antifa and BLM of today have a lot in common with the Nazi's of EARLY 30's Germany - especially in their methods. And if the democrats win control of the US government, with their placeholder candidate, you can expect a repeat of mid to late 30's germany. Not identical, of course. History repeats, but never identically - but it is the same spirit.

This old "after school special" covers it very nicely. I saw it when it was originally broadcast and it was a real eye opener: The Wave. It's based on a true story.

BTW, it won an emmy. And it IS based on solid history. A great comment by a poster on the video: "High school kids were older back then." :)

You don't say. :rolleyes:

True according to the tellers.

Thanks for your input. :)

Opinions vary. Again, thanks for your input, such that it is.

Watch "The wave" to the end and you will see the early versions of the modern Fascists.

The democracy of the 20th Century with all these incompetent democratic politicians made the success of the Barking Monster possible.

Nothing in history is actually to be compared with what is currently happening in the United States. But there are parallels. Obama was a loser like Hindenburg was.

Both prepared the soil for the following dictators.

Your source appears to be a project by The Washington (Moonie) Times. A rabid far right conspiracy theory ridden joke of a 'news' source.

Fake news in other words. Sorry, Robby. :o

https://www.bing.com/search?q=ad+hominem
You mentioned the source, but did not touch on the veracity of the information contained therein. That's fine, but it's certainly not an argument.

Perhaps I hold the views I do because I'm not afraid of any source, even CNN. Stories and analysis stand on their own content, not on the company they keep.

Yawn. Better luck next time.:rolleyes:

Extract from a pm to a fellow AKer;
"Dunno what to say abt the blind march to authoritarian autocracy led by a fact-sterile mendacious con-man who campaigned as a blatant rabble-rousing demagogue. Words can't express how disappointed and disillusioned I am with what I believed this country to be. Why we are following the ultimately disastrous path of authoritarian nationism of the 1930s is a mystery, yet a lesson in how that happens much more easily than one could imagine. Friends and acquaintances have also been a bitter disappointment as it poisons relationships.
I see this "Nazification" of my country as a test of character that many have willing failed for their own reasons, and have no regrets about standing my ground with my eyes open against this betrayal of principles of decency and honorable ethical behavior for nationalistic vanity.
I anticipate the future years I have left with trepidation."

ditto

.

The fewer years one has left can have that effect. Closed thinking too. Also what one reads and watches.

What NI calls the uniparty, I've called American Fascism. I think this election may just cause a major split in our single party system, but our garden's roots will be fine. Then again ...

NI just raps about the 'uniparty' as a way of denying there's any point in voting against Trump. All his posts go to support a nihilist, authoritarian, votes-for-Trump mindset. This is a way to tell he is a propagandist.

If NI is what you claim, he's not all that and overpaid to boot.

What does that even mean.

FWIW, I'll probably not be posting much after the election, no matter who wins. No point, really. Arguing with those with whom I disagree is more entertaining than hanging around a like-minded bubble, but eventually it just gets tiring, unless I see minds changed on both sides. That happens on other political sites I've hung out at, but there seems to be a core strongly partisan group here that have had more than ample opportunity to show they are free thinkers and not lemmings, but have not availed themselves to a single one.

And yes, I know they will accuse me of the same thing, but they don't know the path I took to get where I am. When offered compelling evidence on a site, I do change my mind, and have often. I never saw ANYTHING like that here. No compelling arguments. Just ad-hominem and digging in heals with no evidence to support it.

We'll see how it goes after the election.

Poor Addled Homie, nobody wants to augue with him. Probably because he always wins because he's always right. ;)

Ever heard the saying "Never play chess with a pigeon"?

I think there is a lot of truth to that, but I would say "usually" rather than "always".

I was wrong once back in 1977. It felt terrible. I determined to never repeat the experience. :)

I'd certainly never play for money against Garry Kasparov.

I think the smart leftists have learned to leave me alone. Every now and then one of the young ones, years later, sez, I get it. I now see what that old guy was talking about. It's happened in the real world I occupy. But then, that is to be expected. People grow up and leave their leftist views behind when reality smacks them upside the head. Ask anyone that has emigrated from the old USSR, Venezuela, etc. The warnings are dire. And real.

But hey, you can lead a horse to water...

Here's another guy that "gets it"
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gu...ter-to-pelosi/

The letter:

Dear Ms. Pelosi:
I write to you out of utter disdain! You are as despicable and un-American as the traitor Jane Fonda.

I am a soon to be a 75 year-old who has voted in every state and local election since 1966. I have voted for both Republicans and Democrats alike. I have worked on campaigns for both Republicans and Democrats, white and black. I served the country that I love in Vietnam, as my son did in the Middle East . I was awarded two bronze stars. I have been involved in politics since age 6 when my father was campaign manager for a truly great American Congressman, Charles Raper Jonas, who worked for his constituents and his country, and was to be admired, unlike you.

You obviously haven't read the Constitution recently, if ever, the Federalist Papers, or even David McCulloughs book on John Adams. You ought to take the time while riding around in your government provided luxury executive jet to do just that. You represent Soshialistic (misspelled on purpose) and even Marxist principals that our founding fathers tried to avoid when setting out the capitalistic republican form of government represented by our Constitution.

I find it interesting that you and your husband are multi-millionaires with much of your fortune being made as a result of your public service. You have controlled legislation that has enhanced your husband's investments both on and off shore. At the same time you redistributed the wealth of others. Our system of a free market economy is being destroyed by the likes of you. You ride around in a Gulfstream airplane at the tax payers expense while criticizing the presidents of companies who produced something for the economy. You add nothing to the economy of the United States; you only subtract therefrom.

I would like to suggest that you return to the city of fruitcakes and nuts and eat your husband's canned tuna and pineapple - produced by illegal immigrants and by workers who have been excluded from the protection that 90% of the legal workers in the United States have.

I await your defeat in the next election with glee...

Don’t ever use the term un-American again for protesters who love this country and are exercising their rights upon which this country was founded. By the way, while I served in the Army, I was spit on by the same type of lunatics who support you and who you probably supported in the 60s and 70s. You are an embarrassment to all of us who served so that you would have the protected right of free speech to call us un-American. But at the same time, I have the right to write you to notify you that I consider you to be un-American, as do the majority of the people of this formerly great country. You are a true disgrace to most of the people who served this country by offering themselves for public service in the United States Congress.

I feel certain your aides will not share this letter with you, but I intend to share it with many...

Gaslighting. Watch and tell me who are the fascists:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcdY0nxVSw0

The latest from Heather Cox Richardson espouses hope for our future;

"The next three days will bring the culmination of the 2020 election season, as those of us who have not already cast our ballots will show up on Tuesday to vote in our local, state, and national elections around the country.

Lots of us are exhausted and discouraged, and after the chaos of the past four years, it seems entirely fair to be exhausted. As civil rights icon Fannie Lou Hamer said, we’re “sick and tired of being sick and tired.”

But on this night of calm before the storm, I am the opposite of discouraged.

I am excited about our democracy and our future.

Our nation faces headwinds, for sure. We simply must get the coronavirus pandemic under control, and then address the extremes of wealth and poverty in this country. Fixing healthcare, systemic racism and sexism, climate change, and education all must be on the table as we move firmly into the twenty-first century. It sounds like a daunting list, but after years of apathy while a few wealthy Americans tightened their grip on the nation, Americans have woken up to the fact that democracy is not a spectator sport.

We are taking back our country, and once we have done so, we will find that no problem is insurmountable.

Democracy is rising. It might not win on Tuesday—no jinxing here!—but if not then, the week after that, or the month after, or the year after. After more than thirty years studying our country's history, I have come to believe in American democracy with an almost religious faith.

And then, with our country free again, the future looks wildly exciting, full of different voices, races, religions, foods, gender identities, books, ideas, inventions, music, clothing, political identities, perspectives. In the past, when we have come through a period in which a small group of Americans has taken control of our society and ordinary Americans have taken it back, industry, art, science, and civil rights have blossomed. For my part, I don’t expect to like everything that happens in such a fertile world, but I do expect to learn, and grow, and feel privileged to watch the construction of a world that reflects our people at their best.

I know it’s frightening to hear the stories of Republican leaders trying to get ballots thrown out, and right-wing thugs intimidating Biden voters, and so on. But that Republicans feel the need to engage in such tactics despite their ongoing voter suppression and gerrymandering is a tell-tale sign that they know their party has lost any hope of winning a majority of voters, and that the only way they can win an election is to cheat.

That strategy is not sustainable.

In the past year, the people who have come to these Letters to read and chat and argue and bolster each other have built a community of more than a million strong. We are artists, nurses, scholars, potters, welders, moms, dads, photographers, lawyers, writers, politicians, teachers, landscapers, boatbuilders, bankers, and doctors, people from every imaginable background, brought together by our love for this country and what it has the potential to be. So tonight, as I fall into bed, I urge you all to keep the faith.

Because, I promise, you have enabled me to keep mine."

I gave you far more credit than you deserve or have earned since you chose to engage here. You are far more guilty of what you accuse your propaganda targets of than them. I will henceforth avoid directly acknowledging or responding to your hypocritical provocations.

Meh. More ad-hom.

Heh. That was me in my early 20's. I grew up. This may help someone like her:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dwz_Z62e0s

There is a reason most of the "revolutionaries" are young people. They are easily duped. The human brain does not fully develop until age 25. Until then, it has a hard time thinking long term or considering long term effects of choices. It's why they tend to support stuff like Soshulism. But most of us grow up. The rest we call "gray ponytails". ;)

No funding after election. :)

In other words, I don't engage because I don't believe you argue in good faith. You apply some talent to supporting assigned talking points, but support them you do, using bad arguments when you don't have good ones. And you aren't paid to be open minded....

Calling something "talking points" is just another form of ad-hominem. It's also just an adult version of the childhood phrase, "is not!"

And the arguments I post are sound. Simply saying they are bad is, itself, both gaslighting and projection since that, itself is a bad argument.

My take is also that I'm probably one of the most open minded ones here. I say that because I have changed my mind arguing with leftists from time to time. I haven't here yet, because the quality of leftist here is poor. The heavy use of ad-hom is part of the tell.

I've presented the information. You are without excuse.

You've certainly told him! :D

Your superciliousness is a tell. :cool:

So, I can assume then that my check is in the mail?

No more playing chess with a pigeon?

Oh sure, blacklist me. :D

BTW, torn up bread is nice, but I really prefer black sunflower seeds. ;)

A Reply
 

Ok, Not Insane, let’s have a conversation. I’ll address the content of the piece in the OP. I find it to be very poorly written, laden with opinions rather than facts, assumption rather than inferences, and drawing specious conclusions through shoddy (or nonexistent) reasoning.

“The results of this election will determine if we remain a free nation, or whether we slide into an abyss of overreaching big government. Where none of the freedoms in our Constitution are sacrosanct, only those that the government will allow.”

A biased and unsubstantiated assertion, clearly from the standpoint of a Trump supporter. Someone from the other side might easily replace the second clause with, “slide into an abyss of authoritarianism.” Either way, this is a false dichotomy, with no evidence or reasoning to back it up, and no explanation of how you get from the (undesired) results of the election to the second sentence.

“A look at history shows us exactly how our nation has relegated into warring tribes of people for whom there is no longer any common ground on which to build a consensus. Today we are either all one side or the other. While there certainly are some centrist, they are a shrinking minority as both left and right points of view have grown and hardened.”

Disagreement is not warring, though I do think much of the division in U.S. has tribal aspects. Yet, I would assert that there is plenty of common ground: we all want a good education, health care, jobs, peace, safe and flourishing communities, enough to eat, friends and family, liberty to pursue our individual happiness, freedom of worship, etc. How much more common ground do you need? Also, it cannot be the case that we are all on one side or the other and yet there are still some centrists. What is the evidence that left and right points of view have hardened? I would argue that the nation’s ability to discuss issues is hampered by increasingly low education levels that lead to a lack of critical thinking, and by the echo chambers of social media.

The subsequent historical analysis is so badly written that it is painful to read, and it is mostly garbage. But let’s look at the analogy the author draws between ANTIFA/BLM and Nazi Brownshirts. The Brownshirts were the highly organized paramilitary arm of the Nazi Party, focused almost exclusively on violence, who wore uniforms and carried weapons. Their role was to provide protection for the Party at rallies, and to disrupt and intimidate at opponents’ rallies.

Antifa in contrast is not an organization. There is no leadership structure. It is more of a mindset and approach towards opposing fascism (and who wouldn’t want to do that?). FBI Director Chris Ray acknowledged that Antifa is more of an ideology than an organization. (https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...d0be4b65f2362e) Antifa has nothing to do with anarchy, notwithstanding that anarchists have caused violence and property destruction at BLM rallies.

As for BLM, I went to a number of protests and never once saw any violence or destruction, or anyone who was armed. In fact, 95% of protests around the country this summer were non-violent. 95%. Ninety-five percent. I can’t emphasize that enough. (Here is the data: https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/dem...r-summer-2020/) You would never get that impression following the news, especially right wing outlets. What evidence does the author present that BLM creates anarchy? None. It’s just a given in his mind.

Where violence did occur in many, but certainly not all circumstances, was when the police responded with heavy handed tactics. I saw this first hand in Portland where Trump sending in deputized military contractors threw gasoline on the fire. Another big cause of violence was right wing militias. But the author says nothing about this. Despite the Department of Homeland Security saying that right wing, white supremacist militias represent the greatest domestic threat to the nation. (https://thehill.com/policy/national-...ng-delay-lists)

On a historical note, the author is incorrect that the SA were purged. “ The purged found many imprisoned or simply murdered.” Rather, 1000 people including the SA leadership and other political enemies were killed because Rohm presented a threat to Hitler. Many of the three million SA members were incorporated into the SS, but the organization continued to exist after 1934 and was used in anti-Jewish pogroms. It existed in fact until the end of the war but by then most of its membership had been drafted into the armed forces.

When the author starts talking about the new media, he really goes off the rails with bias and false conclusions. He labels the main news outlets (NYT, WP, AP, ABC, NBC, etc.) as part of a propaganda machine which, thankfully in his mind, has not yet grasped hold of Fox, CDN and One America). The only way you can accept this assertion is through confirmation bias, as he presents zero evidence. It also doubly ludicrous to assert that Facebook and Twitter are part of the mainstream media. They simply are not accredited, time tested or fact checked sources, are made up of millions of individuals, and propagate much disinformation on both the right and the left.

What he claims instead is that non-reporting of violent demonstrations proves that the “MSM” have lied to make Trump look bad. Has he done or read a review of press articles? Evidence? Bueller? Bueller?

The best line in the piece, and the one I totally agree with is: “We are being bullied, lied to, and shamed for not believing lies over the truth we see plainly before our eyes.“

I think all the evidence points to this being exactly how Trump behaves. His presidency has been characterized by constant lying and gaslighting. The Washington Post Fact Checker had Trump at 20,000 lies in July. He makes up things and throws them out to see what sticks every single day.

Welcome to PC Yggdrasill!

For what?

Yggdrasill, glad to have you with us! I enjoyed your response to our resident Reich-wing propagandist. Be ready for a condescending, folksy, and basically skillfully-written yet vapid response from him. He will be happy to use engagement with you to push his narratives further.

Welcome and thanks for taking the time to bring receipts, Yggdrasill.

The cult will never see or agree with the reality of facts and or proof. When presented no matter what.
Only the narrative from the master.:rolleyes:

Had one tell me today the master never lies, ask me to name just one!

Let's just cut the disingenuous bluster and bullshit and go to the source of the Nazi comparison:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Victory_of_Faith

Judge for yourself:

https://archive.org/details/SiegDesGlaubens1933.EN

Most of them quit saying that a year or two ago.