Humanism has the Answer
 

As most of you know, Humanism is the ethical standard used by many atheists showing that no "divine" intervention is needed to establish the rules in a society which benefit the greatest majority of members. If you are a proud Humanist and would like to show it off to the world, you can go to ebay and put "Humanism has the answers" into search and it will lead you to a bumper sticker that you can use to do so. It's a good idea to not actually apply it to the plastic bumpers on today's cars, but I put mine on a back window. If people notice it, it could give you a chance to educate them about ethics without the myth and superstition of religion.

I fear most of the likely respondents would be pretty uneducable.

As one who is more spiritual then religious in nature. Asked by churchgoers over the years just what this means.
Tell them I do not need the fear of eternal fire or a group of others reinforcing by belief in doing and being good towards others.

The words "morality" and "atheist" can not be used in conjunction. They are mutually exclusive. The god of an atheist is himself. And a true atheist with a modicum of human intellect understands that if we are simply an accident of nature, no act is moral or immoral, any more than ice freezing in asphalt and creating potholes is moral or immoral, for nothing has meaning. There is no "Why". And without "why", there is no purpose or morality.

Feel free to wipe out the entire human race. It's as much an amoral act as killing the weeds on your driveway is.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. And by "fear", I mean recognizing who created you and acknowledging that ultimately he is in charge and created you for a purpose. The rest is just playing games with reality.

You and I are in complete agreement there. I'm a believer in CI (conditional immortality. The bible is actually pretty clear on the subject. We are all born into these temporary human bodies - the natural man - and then that body dies.

But Jesus offers a better way that was planned before the creation of this age. We can simply acknowledge him as savior from that death and we can be spiritually born to join with Him in the next ages. Until one is spiritually born, they are, for all intents and purposes, an NPC.

BTW, a description of CI:
https://www.jewishnotgreek.com/

The words "morality" and "atheist" can not be used in conjunction. They are mutually exclusive. The god of an atheist is himself. And a true atheist with a modicum of human intellect understands that if we are simply an accident of nature, no act is moral or immoral, any more than ice freezing in asphalt and creating potholes is moral or immoral, for nothing has meaning. There is no "Why". And without "why", there is no purpose or morality.

Feel free to wipe out the entire human race. It's as much an amoral act as killing the weeds on your driveway is.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. And by "fear", I mean recognizing who created you and acknowledging that ultimately he is in charge and created you for a purpose. The rest is just playing games with reality.


Retort: So much wrong with the reply above. Atheism is the lack of belief in a "God" and does not contain a moral philosophy, per se. As previously stated, Humanism is the ethical construct used by a great many atheists.
The first need is to define Humanism: an understanding that humans alone are responsible for their short-term and long-term conduct in society with no need for a "divine" input. As such, humanism has been around since the dawn of "civilization" as evolution produced the first homo genus creatures. As soon as people began to congregate, there was a realization that certain codes of conduct (ethics) would make their interactions more stable. And thus rules such as no stealing, no lying, leave the other person's sexual mate alone, be respectful towards others, came into being. Well in advance of any "Ten Commandments", for certain.
And "wisdom" comes not from "fear", but from CURIOSITY about the world around us and LEARNING through various techniques what it is about.
And Humanism has the answers without resorting to "fear" or myth or superstition, as does religion.

If there is no divine input, nothing has purpose. A thing can not give itself purpose. It can only believe it can give itself purpose. At the end of the day, if there is no God, no man has purpose and mankind itself has no purpose. You can rape, kill and pillage without consequence other than more powerful people killing or enslaving you for doing it. And you're gonna die no matter what you do anyway. Life is truly and utterly pointless. Giving it some sort of purpose in your mind can keep you sane, but without a creator and purpose, that is only playing games with what is real.

Humanism is a dead end philosophy.

Indeed. They're quite Insane.

I think you're right. Re-education camps might help. :D

I guess that leaves me out. ;)

A code of ethics that serves all needn't rely on a religious basis, and might be an improvement for using religion to justify unethical behavior.
For instance;

"The state of nature has a law of nature to govern it, which obliges every one: and reason, which is that law, teaches all mankind, who will but consult it, that being all equal and independent, no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or possessions… (and) when his own preservation comes not in competition, ought he, as much as he can, to preserve the rest of mankind, and may not, unless it be to do justice on an offender, take away, or impair the life, or what tends to the preservation of the life, the liberty, health, limb, or goods of another."
John Locke

Thousands of years ago people prayed to a tree, a rock the sun or many gods... with the same passion, fervor and convictions as today. Making the very same arguments and assumptions all these times. Thinking they are the only ones right, to have all of the answers over all other beliefs. Waged wars to eliminate other views contrary to said beliefs.
This all may well be in a attempt to answer the human need to explain the unexplained. To make sense of the senseless.
We will all know the answers to all of our questions someday. Just not able to pass it along.

What needs to be understood. There is a basic truth and justice at the core that we humans should just follow. Not abrogating responsibility or waiting for a savior. If a God gave humans intelligence and free will then use it!

there is no divine input, nothing has purpose. A thing can not give itself purpose. It can only believe it can give itself purpose. At the end of the day, if there is no God, no man has purpose and mankind itself has no purpose. You can rape, kill and pillage without consequence other than more powerful people killing or enslaving you for doing it. And you're gonna die no matter what you do anyway. Life is truly and utterly pointless. Giving it some sort of purpose in your mind can keep you sane, but without a creator and purpose, that is only playing games with what is real.

Humanism is a dead end philosophy.


Retort: Again, simply not true. Humanism simply recognizes that "there ain't nobody but us" to come up with the set of ethics that makes human societies most liveable. A "God" is simply not needed. Occam's Razor. The purpose of life is life itself. As Woody Allen once said, "showing up is 90% of life". Once a person is born into the human race, it is then up to the other homo sapiens to educate that person to live in a fruitful and lawful society. No matter how often you "witness" and repeat yourself, Humanism remains the manner in which society has adopted its rules for living since the evolution of the species.

I'm drilling into the core belief and its resulting outcome and worldview. If there is no creator, there are literally no rules other than the ones we make up. And they only apply to the person who makes them up and those that person conquers. And even then, they can be chanced at will. And they really have no power other than to extend or end a life that is terminal at conception anyway.

I'm trilling into the core belief and its resulting outcome and worldview. If there is no creator, there are literally no rules other than the ones we make up. And they only apply to the person who makes them up and those that person conquers. And even then, they can be chanced at will. And they really have no power other than to extend or end a life that is terminal at conception anyway.


Again, so much wrong Yes, there are no rules other than the ones that we, homo sapiens, make up. That is the very core of Humanism, to find the most ethical manner for civil societies to thrive on a long-term basis. The Constitution of the United States is perhaps the most important Humanist document every written. It codifies the foundation of the nation using HUMANIST concepts. Not once is the "divine" written into it as a basis for its conception.
Humanism has the answers, and without the myths and superstitions underlying religions.

There in lies the rub.

Some need or require the fear of retribution a reckoning in order to be good.

Then there are those who do good because they prefer to do so, feeling it is right, without the fear.

Actually, the Christian message is not fear of retribution and reckoning, though some would have you believe that. It is quite the opposite. It is your second paragraph. It is even part of the Christian message that that "sense" is in all of us.

https://www.jewishnotgreek.com/

Humanism has answers, true. They are just not "the answer". They are written in sand. Hitler had answers. Pol Pot had answers. And their answers were correct until someone with more power decided they weren't. But until then, if you were within their sphere of power, they were the "right" answers. And theirs were most definitely "humanist" answers.

Sans ethics, abusive authoritarianism isn't "humanism" but can be religiously grounded, as is often the case.

Sure. Religion is man made. It is one of many tools used to manipulate people. Look at islam today. ;)

But according to humanism, the abusive authoritarian is right, until he's overthrown by someone more powerful (or he dies). In humanism, might quite literally makes right.

Then, what's up with this "fear the lord" nonsense?

How is that different from religion?

I consider humanism to be a form of religion. Atheism too.

Agnosticism?
A state of lacking sufficient data to make a determination at this time.

That's what I was. I was an "intellectual agnostic". I thought only shallow thinkers were Christians. I'm no longer an agnostic for a lot of reasons. The miraculous healings in my and my wife's lives being one of them.

As a Christian I understand the concept of "sheep and goats", but I separate it further. I believe there are Goats, found sheep and lost sheep. The "found sheep" tell the lost sheep and goats the good news, and the lost sheep become found sheep while the goats remain goats. I used to be a lost sheep. For all I know, many here are as well, but I suspect there are a few goats. That is for the Lord to sort out, not me. I share and let the chips fall where they may. :)

I'll just throw this out: If the Lord wills that none be lost, and he even presented himself, after his resurrection, to Saul of Tarsus, switching him from Saul to Paul and from a murderer of Christians to a leader of them, why does he not do that with every non-believer? It's a fun question to ask in church. Mouths open, eyes go crossed, and befuddlery fills the room. :)

I have thoughts on it, but by no means have the answer. Yet.

I might take the word of those who lead by selfless example. Say, attend a Sunday school class by Jimmy Carter vs a service by almost any populist doctrinaire evangelist.

I teach sunday school at my church and also at our local jail. I've never seen a class by Jimmy Carter, though.

I get a lot of flack from people around here that adhere to the ECT doctrine (Eternal Conscious Torment). I teach CI in Jail and, being in the bible belt where even the guys in jail have a strong church bakground, it's a real eye opener. There are a lot of truly scared people around here. Scared of God. That should not be. You can "fear" him in the same way people who run nuclear power plants "fear" the plant.

Apparently, it doesn't work as a deterrent for some "in the fold" as believers.

But according to humanism, the abusive authoritarian is right, until he's overthrown by someone more powerful (or he dies). In humanism, might quite literally makes right.


Retort: You post lots of misinformation about Humanism, which shows that you have some fear of learning about it in a correct manner. Humanism implies POSITIVE ETHICS, not "anything at all" done by humans. Certainly a Humanist would see an "abusive authoritarian" as what he or she is, a scourge on the society of humans.

What "you consider" does not make it correct. Religion clearly implies some sort of ethereal existence that contains a "God" and perhaps other creatures that is used as a foundation for the beliefs therein.
Humanism and atheism, on the other hand, consider only that which is known as "natural" and of THIS world, not of some "supernatural" entity or existence. HUGE difference!

I teach sunday school at my church and also at our local jail. I've never seen a class by Jimmy Carter, though.

I get a lot of flack from people around here that adhere to the ECT doctrine (Eternal Conscious Torment). I teach CI in Jail and, being in the bible belt where even the guys in jail have a strong church bakground, it's a real eye opener. There are a lot of truly scared people around here. Scared of God. That should not be. You can "fear" him in the same way people who run nuclear power plants "fear" the plant.


Retort: ummmm, YOU are the one who mentioned "fear" in your very first post of this thread. Why are you now backtracking?

I'm not. I was just not being clear. Part of my message is regarding the english word "fear" as used in the bible regarding our creator. It is used in the same way a father may tell his son, who he is teaching to shoot, to "fear" his rifle. It is more about respecting the power of the Lord and creator and acknowledging who he is.

Hitler had answers. Pol Pot had answers. And their answers were correct until someone with more power decided they weren't. But until then, if you were within their sphere of power, they were the "right" answers. And theirs were most definitely "humanist" answers.

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Retort: Again, misinformation and disinformation. There have been murderous tyrants since the beginning of the homo species. And what has your "God" done about it? Nothing, that I can tell. In all cases, it was decent and ethical humans who eventually put a stop to their regimes. Now the Germans have a prosperous and ethical nation. Cambodia remains under the control of Communists, but at least there are not the purges that are killing tens of thousands of people "just because". And in both cases, in all cases, that happened because HUMANS, other humans, came to the rescue. Sometimes it wasn't very pretty, as in wars that kill quite literally millions, but the outcome was positive for the long term social milieu of the world.
Humanism has the answers, and without the myth and superstitions that form the foundation of religion.

Part of my message is regarding the english word "fear" as used in the bible regarding our creator. It is used in the same way a father may tell his son, who he is teaching to shoot, to "fear" his rifle.

Retort: Or the black father who has "the talk" with his teenage son who is getting his driving license, and reminding him that there will be an excellent chance of being stopped "DWB", driving while black, and just because he is black as opposed to a white person doing the very same thing in his car.

Fear is a poor substitute for respect.

Well said, Pio.

Actually, "fear" was a HUGE part of the Old Testament. It was all full of reasons why people should "fear the Lord". And it's still the same, really. If you have a debate with a religionist and it seems to be going your way, they will pull out the "hell card" and play it. BUT WHAT ABOUT WHEN YOU DIE! DON'T YOU FEAR THE CONSEQUENCES IF YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN!

A-humm, about that Spanish inquisition thing?

I have sat thru more many sermons and masses over the years. So do not tell me what I heard preached.
Then for many years went to car shows where "Christian Car Guys" were in attendance. Hearing all the stories about the car "deal" (steal) talk. Hearing the stories in church services from the same people about family members who passed on burning in hell because of not being "saved"!!!
Accompanying crocodile tears of course!

Even had to explain to some kids camping once after another camper said with vinegar and hate, "your going to burn in hell" because they were Catholic! Told you're not Christians!
Ask yourself where did the little one get such ideas?
Even had to explain to parents when they came to pick up the kids.

So now you have a taste for what I'm up against. ;)