Political Forums

Political Forums (http://www.politicalchat.org/index.php)
-   History (http://www.politicalchat.org/forumdisplay.php?f=40)
-   -   Is Democracy Lost? (http://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=12798)

Chicks 02-23-2020 09:20 AM

Is Democracy Lost?
 
We've been here before, and recovered. We can recover again, if ordinary folks will wake up to the destruction of democracy and vote out the oligarchs. With so many under the control of Faux "News" and the rest of wingnut media, it will be more difficult this time, sadly.

Heather Cox Richardson
6 hrs ·
February 22, 2020 (Saturday)

A lot of folks have been asking me lately if America has ever been in such a crisis before and, if so, what people in the past did to save democracy.

The answer to the first question is yes, it has, three times, although only once was this bad. In the 1850s, the 1890s, and the 1920s, oligarchs took over the nation’s government, controlling the White House, Congress, and the courts.

In the 1850s, elite southern slaveholders took over the Democratic Party and insisted that they should have the right to spread their economic system of large plantations worked by enslaved laborers across the American West. This would mean a whole host of new western slave states which, acting in concert with the southern slave states, would take over Congress and make slavery national.

In 1854, with the help of compliant Democratic President Franklin Pierce, they forced through Congress the Kansas-Nebraska Act. This law replaced the Missouri Compromise of 1820, which had kept slavery out of the northwestern plains. The Kansas-Nebraska Act would let settlers choose whether or not they would admit enslaved labor but, so long as a single slave was brought into a territory, the government would have to protect slavery there under the Constitution’s promise to protect property (for enslaved workers were, technically, property). This, of course, meant slavery would spread to all the territories.

Three years later, in the Dred Scott decision, the Supreme Court denied that Congress had any power to legislate in the territories anyway, meaning it could not stop the spread of slavery there. Then pro-slavery men in Kansas cheated to win territorial elections, then passed laws that kept anti-slavery men from ever holding power. Then, when Massachusetts Senator Charles Sumner—who had himself been a Democrat until 1854—protested that pro-slavery men were cheating in Kansas to serve the slaveholding oligarchy, a southern Democrat beat him nearly to death on the Senate floor. Then, in the 1860 election, southern slaveholders kept all but Democrats from voting, and refused even to allow ballots with their opponents’ names on them.

In the 1890s, industrialists working primarily with the Republican Party took over the government and jiggered the laws to protect their interests, move money upward, and destroy workers’ rights. The courts were packed in their favor. This was the era when the Supreme Court decided (in Lochner v. New York) that states could not regulate the hours an employer required from his workers because such regulation violated the Fourteenth Amendment, which had initially been added to the Constitution to protect the rights of African Americans. It also declared the federal income tax, which Republicans had invented in 1861 and which businessmen hated, was unconstitutional. As Republican policies caused the party to lose a popular majority, they first added six new states to the Union to hold the Senate and the Electoral College (we got North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, and Washington in twelve months from 1889-1890), and then wrote new state constitutions to keep poor men and men of color from voting.

After World War I, Americans terrified of communism after the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution attacked workers advocating unions and African Americans calling for civil rights. In the 1920 election, the Republican Party took control of the country in a landslide and put in place their theory that businessmen should control the government. That worldview was popular, and those who challenged it were silenced. The Ku Klux Klan, which had been destroyed in the early 1870s, rebounded and pledged to defend small-town values and Christianity by purging society of immigrants and black Americans. By 1925, the KKK had from 2 to 5 million members, and the support of millions more.

Novelist John Dos Passos looked at the nation dominated by businessmen and their government and wrote, “they have clubbed us off the streets they are stronger they are rich they hire and fire the politicians the newspaper editors the old judges the small men with reputations the college presidents the wardheelers (Listen businessmen college presidents judges America will not forget her betrayers) they hire the men with guns the uniforms the policecars the patrolwagons… all right you have won you will kill the brave men our friends tonight… there is nothing left to do we are beaten… America our nation has been beaten by strangers who have turned our language inside out who have taken the clean words our fathers spoke and made them slimy and foul… we stand defeated America….”

In each era, it seemed like American democracy had been conquered by an oligarchy that was sucking wealth upward and had no interest in serving the needs of regular Americans. In 1860, elite slaveholders spread across the nation a system that would destroy the ability of poor white men to rise. In 1900, in the deadliest natural disaster in American history, a hurricane hit Galveston and killed between 6,000 and 12,000 people and did more than a billion dollars worth of damage in today’s money. But the partisan politicians in the city did not have the skills or the infrastructure either to clean up or to rebuild. And in 1929, the Republican experiment shattered in October when the Stock Market Crash set off the Great Depression, and the government had no solution but to wait it out.

But in each era, just when democracy seemed lost, regular Americans took it back. They started simply by complaining. In each case, for at least a decade, the oligarchs had controlled the media as well as the government, and most Americans had come to believe whatever the oligarchs argued. Simply saying they were wrong brought ridicule, scorn, and sometimes violence, but those defending democracy started to get traction. They wrote letters to congressmen and to newspapers, and they protested in the streets, pointing out that the southern slaveholders, or the industrialists, or the businessmen, were gaming the system to destroy democracy. Pretty soon like-minded people began to gather together to talk about what they could do to take America back.

They started to run for local offices, and state offices, and even for seats in Congress. And when elections came, they turned out voters by reminding them just how important it was for them to show up. And in elections, the people in power cheated and the game was rigged… but the people defending American democracy still won.

Americans change politics first by changing minds. If this were not the case, Russia would not be swamping us with disinformation, and the right wing would not flood the country with talk radio and the Fox News Channel, which present fact-free stories designed to divert people from reality. And, of course, Trump would not bother spinning his own lies. People, and now bots, spreading those lies have been so assertive that a lot of folks who know they’re crap have stayed quiet, not wanting to start a fight. But speaking up to identify lies and to celebrate real American values is a crucial step toward changing the national narrative. If it weren’t, no one would be paying bots and trolls to shut us up.

Changing the national narrative is crucially important, but it is not enough to change our government. To do that, we need to complain constantly to our elected officials, even those who ignore us (because they do keep a record), and to support politicians who are advancing democracy. While everyone is currently focused on the presidential race, even more important are the Senate races, and the House. If Democrats take the Senate, Trump will be hamstrung even if he is reelected. And the House needs to be Democratic to check him in the first place. So support a presidential candidate, sure, but pick a Senate race and a House race, and work for that candidate, too.

This election is one of the most important in our nation’s history, maybe THE most important. And just as in the 1850s, the 1890s, and the 1920s, the people in power would not be working so hard to silence those of us who care deeply about American democracy if they thought our actions didn’t matter.

Oerets 02-23-2020 09:57 AM

It is looking more and more like the country is fundamentally changes we just don't see the ramifications yet. Still think we are living in a free and open country with equality for all.
With the stacking of the judiciary and willing co-conspirator in the senate and Russia dis-information without any filter on the internet.
We be in for a change for sure.

Dondilion 02-24-2020 10:29 AM

Re post (1). A lot of oligarch statements and references:
if ordinary folks will wake to the destruction of democracy and vote out the oligarchs.

oligarchs took over the nation's government, controlling the white house,

to serve the slaveholding oligarchy

in each era, it seemed like American democracy had been conquered by an oligarchy

the oligarchs had controlled the media as well as the government

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now check the lady's previous chronicle in which she states that she is awaiting the firepower of a top oligarch, Blumie, presumably to stall the populist candidate.

WTF

Chicks 02-24-2020 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 381978)
Now check the lady's previous chronicle in which she states that she is awaiting the firepower of a top oligarch, Blumie, presumably to stall the populist candidate.

WTF

Projecting again, are we? This from a moron who promotes a despicable, disgusting propagandist like Fucker Carlson. You are brutally stupid.

donquixote99 02-24-2020 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 381978)
Re post (1). A lot of oligarch statements and references:
if ordinary folks will wake to the destruction of democracy and vote out the oligarchs.

oligarchs took over the nation's government, controlling the white house,

to serve the slaveholding oligarchy

in each era, it seemed like American democracy had been conquered by an oligarchy

the oligarchs had controlled the media as well as the government

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now check the lady's previous chronicle in which she states that she is awaiting the firepower of a top oligarch, Blumie, presumably to stall the populist candidate.

WTF

She can be wrong about Blumie and still right about lots of stuff. Let's allow this very knowledgeable lady some humanity. Like many, she is casting, always at risk of despair, for a way Trump can be defeated.

Dondilion 02-24-2020 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 381982)
She can be wrong about Blumie and still right about lots of stuff. Let's allow this very knowledgeable lady some humanity. Like many, she is casting, always at risk of despair, for a way Trump can be defeated.

I yield to your point that she is casting.

Democrats find themselves in a bad spot. Important voices spent so much time and energy going after Trump that they left the addressing of the salient and substantive issues relating to the people's bread basket and social mobility to Bernie...the most consistent politician. As a result Bernie has broaden his base considerably. Now many of the voices fear Bernie

If it is seen that Bernie is denied due to importation of Oligarchs, changing of rules, shenanigans etc then a major rift in the party will ensue.

The lady knows her history. I would surely like her take on the Democratic Party history in the 1940s.

donquixote99 08-10-2020 10:09 PM

Speaking of democracy lost, commentator in Australia gives a perspective on the US as a decayed superpower imploding due to interior rot, same as the USSR did. https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sto...aLflAYs8Xyb5Lc

donquixote99 08-11-2020 08:31 AM

Another view of America as a civilization in decay. Chris Hedges, writing in Common Dreams, describes how crisis cults (such as Q-Anon) are symptomatic of the way civilizations die. The irrationality is a necessary feature. As was observed in the 1930s, 'if Nazism depended on rational acceptance of its theories, there would be no Nazis.'

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2...as-death-march

donquixote99 09-13-2020 07:29 AM

This is short but really says a bunch. Take the time to unpack it:

Quote:

"Americans are, of course, the most thoroughly and passively indoctrinated people on earth. They know next to nothing as a rule about their own history, or the histories of other nations, or the histories of the various social movements that have risen and fallen in the past, and they certainly know little or nothing of the complexities and contradictions comprised within words like “so*ialism” and “capitalism.”

Chiefly, what they have been trained not to know or even suspect is that, in many ways, they enjoy far fewer freedoms, and suffer under a more intrusive centralized state, than do the citizens of countries with more vigorous social-democratic institutions.

This is at once the most comic and most tragic aspect of the excitable alarm that talk of social democracy or democratic so*ialism can elicit on these shores. An enormous number of Americans have been persuaded to believe that they are freer in the abstract than, say, Germans or Danes precisely because they possess far fewer freedoms in the concrete.

They are far more vulnerable to medical and financial crisis, far more likely to receive inadequate health coverage, far more prone to irreparable insolvency, far more unprotected against predatory creditors, far more subject to income inequality, and so forth, while effectively paying more in tax (when one figures in federal, state, local, and sales taxes, and then compounds those by all the expenditures that in this country, as almost nowhere else, their taxes do not cover).

One might think that a people who once rebelled against the mightiest empire on earth on the principle of no taxation without representation would not meekly accept taxation without adequate government services. But we accept what we have become used to, I suppose.

Even so, one has to ask, what state apparatus in the “free” world could be more powerful and tyrannical than the one that taxes its citizens while providing no substantial civic benefits in return, solely in order to enrich a piratically overinflated military-industrial complex and to ease the tax burdens of the immensely wealthy?"

~ David Bentley Hart

nailer 09-13-2020 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondilion (Post 381978)
Re post (1). A lot of oligarch statements and references:
if ordinary folks will wake to the destruction of democracy and vote out the oligarchs.

oligarchs took over the nation's government, controlling the white house,

to serve the slaveholding oligarchy

in each era, it seemed like American democracy had been conquered by an oligarchy

the oligarchs had controlled the media as well as the government

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now check the lady's previous chronicle in which she states that she is awaiting the firepower of a top oligarch, Blumie, presumably to stall the populist candidate.

WTF

Nice post.

In the OP, Richardson is playing the role of biased revisionist in order to support her current political perspective.

Chicks 09-13-2020 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nailer (Post 391408)
Nice post.

In the OP, Rubin is playing the role of biased revisionist in order to support her current political perspective.

Rubin? You really aren't paying attention... :rolleyes:

nailer 09-13-2020 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 391402)
This is short but really says a bunch. Take the time to unpack it:

David is describing American Fascism among other things. His next to last paragraph shows that he too has bought in to the party line.

nailer 09-13-2020 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicks (Post 391409)
Rubin? You really aren't paying attention... :rolleyes:

Thanks. Just goes to show that an EGN can contribute. :cool:

donquixote99 09-13-2020 10:25 AM

EGN?

Elite Gaming Network?
Entrepreneurial Growth Network?
El Gato Negro?

noonereal 09-13-2020 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicks (Post 381961)
Is Democracy Lost?.

We are a real shit hole just 4 short years later.

Chicks 09-14-2020 09:35 AM

How Conspiracy Theories Are Shaping the 2020 Election—and Shaking the Foundation of American Democracy

https://time.com/5887437/conspiracy-...2020-election/

Quote:

Experts who follow disinformation say nothing will change until Facebook and YouTube shift their business model away from the algorithms that reward conspiracies. “We are not anywhere near peak crazy,” says Mele. Phillips, the professor from Syracuse, agrees that things will get weirder. “We’re in trouble,” she adds. “Words sort of fail to capture what a nightmare scenario this is.”

But to voters like Kelly Ferro, the mass delusion seems more like a mass awakening. Trump “is revealing these things,” she says serenely, gesturing with her turquoise-tipped fingernails. Americans’ “eyes are being opened to the darkness that was once hidden.”

After yoga in the morning, Ferro says, she often spends hours watching videos, immersing herself in a world she believes is bringing her ever closer to the truth. “You can’t stop, because it’s so addicting to have this knowledge of what kind of world we’re living in,” she says. “We’re living in an alternate reality.”
Ferro is just like Waggs and Insane - constantly watching conspiracy videos on YooToob, and believing the utter nonsense. Sad. A misinformed mind is a dangerous thing.

nailer 09-14-2020 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 391413)
EGN?

Elite Gaming Network?
Entrepreneurial Growth Network?
El Gato Negro?

I guess that's for me and Chicks to know and for you to find out. :cool:

noonereal 09-14-2020 10:21 AM

Democracy will be lost when Trump loses teh election but retains office by maneuvers enabled by teh GOP in the Senate which is VERY possible.

donquixote99 09-14-2020 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nailer (Post 391440)
I guess that's for me and Chicks to know and for you to find out. :cool:

In that case, ESAD. :)

nailer 09-14-2020 11:49 AM

You just Addled Homied me! :D

mpholland 09-18-2020 07:42 PM

RBG's passing may have just put the last nail in the coffin.

noonereal 09-18-2020 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpholland (Post 391648)
RBG's passing may have just put the last nail in the coffin.

it did

i posted just this in another thread

RickeyM 09-19-2020 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpholland (Post 391648)
RBG's passing may have just put the last nail in the coffin.

Oh shit :(

Oerets 09-19-2020 07:12 AM

Many troubled dark days ahead for us all.

The great country we knew is gone I'm afraid. Replaced by one in name only, living on a memory of what it once was.

noonereal 09-19-2020 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oerets (Post 391659)
many troubled dark days ahead for us all.

The great country we knew is gone i'm afraid. Replaced by one in name only, living on a memory of what it once was.

rip usa

donquixote99 09-19-2020 07:34 AM

Never despair. Argentina got past its dirty war period. It can be very bad, but it always gets better one way or another. Best if the thing can be turned around, of course. I will put my old bod on the line, for whatever that may be worth.

noonereal 09-19-2020 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpholland (Post 391648)
RBG's passing may have just put the last nail in the coffin.

Exactly what passed though my mind, word for word, just 30 seconds ago.

Chicks 09-19-2020 08:34 AM

Donny's former intelligence chief warns 'our democracy's enemies' want Americans to believe the 2020 election is rigged

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...sX0?li=BBnb7Kz

Former Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats is calling on Congress to create an election oversight commission.

Coats in a New York Times op-ed warned that undermining the legitimacy of the election is precisely what "our democracy's enemies, foreign and domestic, want."

He served as President* Donald Trump's intelligence chief from 2017 to 2019.

Coats' warning comes as Dipshit Donny continues to push the unfounded notion that mail-in voting leads to widespread voter fraud.

BlueStreak 09-21-2020 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixote99 (Post 391402)
This is short but really says a bunch. Take the time to unpack it:

So true.

Oerets 09-21-2020 12:22 PM

1 Attachment(s)
.......

BigElCat 09-24-2020 06:01 PM

Our 'founding fathers' were an oligarch.

The USA has never been a true democracy; a true democracy is not compatible with capitalism.

Not that I'm complaining, these are pretty much my personal glory days. I have an 'attitude of gratitude' that is not related to any politicians or statesmen.

It does look like the other shoe is going to drop. I hope Kansas stays out of this pending rebellion. We do have some outdoor stockades waiting for certain misguided revolutionaries.

BigElCat 09-24-2020 06:23 PM

Here's Ike telling MacArthur not to ride into the Bonus Army camp...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Military/co...eisenhower_in/

donquixote99 09-24-2020 08:28 PM

We started off not so Democratic, that is true. Democracy has been added from time to time. One addition that is looking important is the universally-adopted norm that voters, not state legislators, pick each state's electors. I think this norm rises to the level of 'unwritten constitution,' and should be so recognized by the Supreme Court. That is not looking so likely though. Looks more likely that the Supreme Court will vote itself into irrelevancy

donquixote99 09-24-2020 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigElCat (Post 391807)
Here's Ike telling MacArthur not to ride into the Bonus Army camp...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Military/co...eisenhower_in/

Interesting picture, and story.

JJIII 09-25-2020 08:31 AM

Was never intended to be a "true democracy".

Oerets 09-25-2020 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJIII (Post 391819)
Was never intended to be a "true democracy".

Never intended to be a dictatorship or imperial for sure, rather a democratic republic!

donquixote99 09-25-2020 10:22 AM

Either you have government of the people, by the people, and for the people, or else the oligarchs make it of, by, and for them!

BigElCat 09-25-2020 03:12 PM

Or you have an illusion of control, managed by clever illusionists.

donquixote99 09-25-2020 04:39 PM

Far be it from me to suggest that anything ever is or can be purely perfect. But some political cultures are more 'for the people's than others.

BigElCat 09-25-2020 05:03 PM

What we have isn't so bad, compared to historical accounts.

Used to be some big guys would come along with broadswords, chop us up, and steal the girls.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:19 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.